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Old January 6th, 2009, 10:44 AM   #741
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Cape Town
San Francisco
Sydney
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Old January 6th, 2009, 11:25 AM   #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuomiPoika View Post
**** ideologies, I´m talking what´s best for the people here. I don´t follow any ideologies, hence I´m not as narrow minded as you. Modern "economic science" only seeks to justify the repulsive greed of capitalists.

We don´t need "economic science" to tell us something everybody knows is crap. If you are seriously saying that you get just as good health care and social security in the US as in Europe you are dead wrong.

Libertarianism = Sefishness and greed.

In addition to this rich people are often able to manipulate the tax system so that they actually pay less tax than the average middle-class person. Talk about parasites.
However, the brutal force and size of the red army made it the most effective by the end of the war. The red army could easily have conquered Western Europe from the Brits and Americans.
The Russians lost 10 million because they fought the largest German forces. The Germans and the Russians were involved in huge battles, involving countless tanks and guns while the western allies met hardly any resistance.
The German generals were the most cunning in the war. Hitler on the other hand, ****ed it all up. It has often been said that Hitler was the reason Germany lost the war.
But the difference was huge. It took ten shermans to defeat one Panther/Tiger tank.
First of all, maybe an economist shouldn´t try to tell a historian how to do his job.
Second, the US did not have the best equipment and logistics. You are confusing the US army with the Wehrmacht.
Well, actually he didn't get the point that social capitalism (Europe) is good for rich and poor and free capitalism (USA) is just good for the rich. And for those who can afford to get their holidays discounted when they become ill. Those who work hard, often have more health problems and do not even have their little days of holidays left for health recovery,...

About WWII, I am personally very pleased that Hitler never had enough resources and population (what you need to control occupied territories) to constantly win the War... But I think more than the American bombs it was the will of the opressed nations to be free. Polish, Hungarian and other resistance are always neglected in history books. But those were the most courageous as well as those who went to prison for "conspiration" against the dictatorship. But THOSE made the way for Americans not the Amricans themselves!
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Old January 6th, 2009, 11:26 AM   #743
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Cape Town
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Good choice!
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Old January 6th, 2009, 12:59 PM   #744
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My personal opinion. As a foreword, here my parameters:

a - Personal experience. I'm italian, I've roamed along Europe from Lisbon to St. Petersburg, Edinborough to Malta. Mediterranean too: maghreb, Turkey. USA, Canada; southern Brazil, Argentina. Australia. The world is bigger, I know. Good reason for more travels.

b - What is beautiful and what is city? Beauty is whatever you like, some degree of bias is excusable. City is the place where many citizens gather and live decent lifes.
A city must be designed for citizens, the other way around doesn't work well (CIVIS thence CIVITAS).
Since citizens are two-legged primates and cheap fossil fuel is causing climate change leading humans to be the subject of the 6th mass extinction, human scale, footwalk distance and efficient public transport networks are plus, big-size for the sake of big-size is minus (cancer alone shares a different view in the realm of life, yet maybe humans are disembedded from biology, or so they deem to).

THE LIST:

1) VENICE. Different from any other urban venue worldwide, Amsterdam and St. Petersburg included - except some village scattered along the Lagoon of Venice
Besides it's not that kind of beautiful yet spooky provincial town of long gone history : it's a vibrant cultural centre, the Venice-Padua-Treviso Metropolitan Area sums up to 1,5 million inhabitants and is among the most active businness districts in Italy.

2) PARIS. A city re-designed in the second half of the 19th century with huge alleys and boulevards aiming at the best in very field: the most bombastic Opera House (Opéra Garnier), the tallest building (by then, the Eiffel Tower), the most all-encompassing museums (Louvre, Orsay, Quai de Branly), a net of Universities and Ecoles Superieurs with possibly no comparison outside the Anglosphere, a financial district (Défense) like many other in the globalised world, but seen from -and with view at- an old european capital, and charm(e) in every respect, from the street lamp to the President's Lady (a long-term borrow from Italy, OK, but if Rome wasn't quite the opposite of Paris' open-mindedness it could turn the other way around as well - which doesn't to date ).

3) COPENHAGEN I don't know much about Heaven, but it seems to me that danes built their capital according to some image of Paradise. I would even little wonder in case I were explained it was Heaven that was shaped after Copenhagen. Amazing cities there are plenty, but human scale is hard to reach in a little town, not to talk of big cities: Copenhagen gives me the rare sense of a viable lifestyle even in an after-oil age, which is not so far off (after a world war or not, it's just another question, although well-posed).
You may say Copenhagen ain't that Big City, size matters . Sure, but not so much. Functionality matters too , if not more so.

Criticism is welcome. (Unlike abuse).
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Old January 6th, 2009, 01:30 PM   #745
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1. Amsterdam - Netherlands
2. Maastricht - Netherlands
3. Groningen - Netherlands

The rest of the world is irrelevant
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Old January 6th, 2009, 06:36 PM   #746
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Old January 6th, 2009, 07:44 PM   #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad2012 View Post
Ok, it's your opinion, but I have been in Madrid, Lisbon and London, and for me Madrid and London are more beautiful in architecture and monuments, hovewer I agree with you Lisbon is one of my favourite cities in Europe.

Just like you said, this thread is about opinions, can´t beat that.

But i simply can't agree with you when you say Madrid have more beautiful monuments than Lisbon.

Monuments aren't really the biggest asset of Madrid.

It's a great city, no doubt... but can't compete with Lisbon in terms of monuments.
Actually i don't think not even London can.













This are few examples of Lisbon monuments, there are more. But the real beauty of the city is the relation with the river Tejo and the litle things, the litle views that you discover when you walk in the historical neiberhoods like Alfama, Bairro Alto, Mouraria...


Last edited by seattle92; February 12th, 2009 at 06:29 PM.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 12:07 AM   #748
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Madrid is a young city which does not have the huge history cities like Paris, Rome, Istanbul and many others enjoy.
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Old January 7th, 2009, 12:53 AM   #749
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But the age of a city has nothing to do with it's beauty. Sydney or SanFran are much younger than Madrid but they are both breathtakingly beautiful cities!!!
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Old January 7th, 2009, 02:08 AM   #750
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i haven't been around the world really, so I can't have a justified opinion about the three most beautiful cities in the world. but for me, the ones i've been or lived in are:

Mexico City (I know aesthetically it is NOT entirely beautiful like Paris but I just love this city. It has so much history, night life, and also harbors the greatest number of museums than any other city in the world)

San Diego, CA
well-planned, always clean, good skyline, diverse ethnicities, perfect climate, ...what else do you need?

Bern, Switzerland
THIS is the definition of an European city. beautiful location, beautiful and impressive architecture, want to go there again...

i'd like to visit
Lisbon
Tokyo
Istambul
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Old January 7th, 2009, 04:47 AM   #751
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Lisbon is a beautiful city no doubt but I assure you that London and Madrid(which is a very young city) can easily compare to and exceed the monuments of Lisbon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle92 View Post
Just like you said, this thread is about opinions, can´t beat that.

But i simply can't agree with you when you say Madrid have more beautiful monuments than Lisbon.

Monuments aren't really the biggest asset of Madrid.

It's a great city, no doubt... but can't compete with Lisbon in terms of monuments.
Actually i don't think not even London can.













This are few examples of Lisbon monuments, there are more. But the real beauty of the city is the relation with the river Tejo and the litle things, the litle views that you discover when you walk in the historical neiberhoods like Alfama, Bairro Alto, Mouraria...

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Old January 7th, 2009, 04:55 AM   #752
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sorry double post
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Old January 7th, 2009, 05:02 AM   #753
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INCREDIBLE CITY! almost unreal!

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Originally Posted by the spliff fairy View Post
the worlds most spectacular sited city, Wadi Duzan.

This has to be seen to be believed:




also in Yemen, Shibam and its 600 year old skyscrapers

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Old January 7th, 2009, 05:20 AM   #754
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1 - Paris
2 - Montreal
3 - Buenos Aires

¿?
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Old January 7th, 2009, 01:29 PM   #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oduguy1999 View Post
Lisbon is a beautiful city no doubt but I assure you that London and Madrid(which is a very young city) can easily compare to and exceed the monuments of Lisbon.

I've been to Madrid way to many times for you to be able to assure me that.

I've only been to London once and for few days, i was not that impresse, but i understand that there was much more to see and accept your opinion. But Madrid clearly doesn't impresse me in terms of monuments.

About the age of the city. Madrid as been capital of Spain for time enough (1561) and was already in the golden period of the spanish empire.

With so many beautifull spanish cities (Barcelona, Seville, Toledo, Segovia,...), why talk about Madrid?
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Old January 8th, 2009, 09:56 PM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle92 View Post
I've been to Madrid way to many times for you to be able to assure me that.

I've only been to London once and for few days, i was not that impresse, but i understand that there was much more to see and accept your opinion. But Madrid clearly doesn't impresse me in terms of monuments.

About the age of the city. Madrid as been capital of Spain for time enough (1561) and was already in the golden period of the spanish empire.

With so many beautifull spanish cities (Barcelona, Seville, Toledo, Segovia,...), why talk about Madrid?
You said that because you're portuguese .
Anyway I can post a lot of impressive pictures of Madrid as the portuguese forumer did and I will not demonstrate which city is more beautiful.
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Old January 8th, 2009, 10:14 PM   #757
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Quote:
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With so many beautifull spanish cities (Barcelona, Seville, Toledo, Segovia,...), why talk about Madrid?
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Old January 8th, 2009, 10:38 PM   #758
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I personally prefer Madrid over Lisbon, sorry! What makes the beauty of Madrid is the mixture of everything underlined by extreme vibrancy. Don't forget that Madrid is considered one of the most vibrant cities in the world!!!
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Old January 9th, 2009, 02:30 AM   #759
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well thats your opinion, for every church or monument u post of lisbon i can post one of madrids thats just as fabulous if not more(but we arent suppose to do city vs city threads anymore so it would seem childish). Unfortunately, Segovia, Salamanca and Toledo(which are placed in Madrids metro pop.) are small towns with amazing histories and would of made an incredible capital for Spain.
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Old January 9th, 2009, 02:56 AM   #760
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Well let me tell you that Monterrey is wayy cleaner and more developed than any other city in Latin America.

typical comment from a person who is not looking beyond their noses
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