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Old November 8th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #721
luci203
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Is a good thing that the wall did not colapse after the building was finished
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Old November 8th, 2008, 12:44 PM   #722
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The walls are much more robust once the basement is build.
The wall colapsed exactly there where the core is closest to it. Just a coincidence? ... I don't think so!
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Old November 8th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luci203 View Post

Is a good thing that the wall did not collapse after the building was finished
Yeah, like that it would even be possible.

If you're leaning against a wall and I push you (back), would you fall to the ground?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 12:46 AM   #724
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Is really that impossibile?

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Old November 9th, 2008, 12:52 AM   #725
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yes.... why should the weak wall collapse?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 01:09 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by ZZ-II View Post
yes.... why should the weak wall collapse?
Well... the weight of the water DID colapse the temporary wall in the first place. I think they where sure it will not colapse. (100 millions and 18 months delay is not pure happines)

A weak final (not THE) wall could collapse (but now in the other direction), because the weight of the tower. Building a +300m tower, facing one side in the water is an extra chalange. (you have to consider also the water erosion in time)
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Old November 9th, 2008, 01:15 AM   #727
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You don't get it, do you.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 01:16 AM   #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD View Post
You don't get it, do you.
Please enlight me, I'm an Idiot...
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Old November 9th, 2008, 01:57 AM   #729
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Here's a clue: When the water pressure is pushing on the wall, and on the other side is just air, that's a lot of stress. When the other side is pushing back with the concrete of the tower, suddenly the wall isn't weak any more.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 02:10 AM   #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollie Maea View Post
Here's a clue: When the water pressure is pushing on the wall, and on the other side is just air, that's a lot of stress. When the other side is pushing back with the concrete of the tower, suddenly the wall isn't weak any more.
I did understand that... is what happend with the wall.

Mine is another scenario:
the thing is that after is finished, and the tower is up high, IF the wall facing the water is not strong enough, the tower might crumble into the sea, but not because the pressure of the water, but because the weight of the tower. Not to mention that the water can "dig" under the fundation and destroy-it if the protective wall is not strong enough.

P.S.
I understand what happend, and understand that the water CAN'T break the wall, once the hole is filled with the fundation.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 04:47 AM   #731
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The tower is held to the bedrock by piles, so everything you say is a non issue. You know, they have engineers to work this stuff out. Even if they removed the wall completely, the tower wouldn't fall. Did you know that they can build towers straight out of the water if they feel like it?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 06:04 AM   #732
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lol, i love how a single comment about a hypothetical situation has sprung up a whole argument about physics
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Old November 9th, 2008, 02:08 PM   #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew.magoo View Post
lol, i love how a single comment about a hypothetical situation has sprung up a whole argument about physics
Right...

and we contine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollie Maea View Post
You know, they have engineers to work this stuff out.
I'm sure they have, I'm sure that the engineers did the right calculations for the first wall, and the flood was just a part of tha plan, you know... to delay it... make-it more exciting. Hell, maybe it was just a publicity stunt. A flood can really make that tower even more famous.

Now back to earth...
My hole point was, that is better that they did an error of design on that wall, and not a bigger one on the structural part of the building, to have a catastrophy at the first bigger earthquake, and a lot of lives would be lost.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 02:33 PM   #734
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It was not a design error, it was a construction accident not related to the structural design of the tower or her substructure.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 02:54 PM   #735
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Well... if the design would be so perfect, the "accident" would not had happen.

Quote:
Paris airport terminal collapses; 6 dead
(Agencies)
Updated: 2004-05-24 08:39

The vaulted roof of the new, showcase terminal at Paris' Charles de Gaulle airport ¡ª touted as a jewel of design, safety and comfort ¡ª collapsed early Sunday, killing at least six people and forcing authorities to revisit problems that preceded the fanfare opening of Terminal 2E less than a year ago.

The terminal opened 11 months ago following delays because of construction problems. [AP]
There were some cracking sounds and some dust, and then tons of concrete, steel and glass came crashing down on a waiting area inside the gleaming terminal. The 98-foot section of roof fell just before 7 a.m. as passengers were starting to arrive.
It was not a design error, it was a construction accident ?

IF the design is good, accidents don't just happen...
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Old November 9th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #736
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Take some knowledge before discussing things you don't understand. Now give it a break, no more of this please!
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Old November 9th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD View Post
Take some knowledge before discussing things you don't understand. Now give it a break, no more of this please!
What knowledge? I should just take your word?

For me is very simple:

The engineers just fuked up with the design of that wall. Period.

I really don't know why are you defending them so much. Facts are clear. And arguments like "Take some knowledge", "you just don't understand" and other things don't convince me. This kind of "I'm smart, you are stupid, and I'm right" attitude really bugs me.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #738
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Old November 9th, 2008, 03:13 PM   #739
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Right... why can't you accept that others have a different opinion than yours?
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Old November 9th, 2008, 03:25 PM   #740
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luci203: yes, engineers did get it wrong, but it wasnt the engineers who designed the tower. it was those people who were excavating and building the retaining wall that failed to assess the impact of a few thousand tons of water pushing against it.
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