#ON HOLD: THE BINARY, 30F Com - Page 4

ardi · April 17th, 2008, 07:39 AM

yeah but at preluanch you'll pay 5% to 10% oof orginal value, in resale you almost have to pay 20% to 30% + Premium, and if you want to buy, buy in Bayswater or One BB cuz its close to completion.

Smokeey · April 17th, 2008, 08:07 PM

I spoke to Omniyat today - they are quoting Q3 2009 completion for both towers. They estimated that the average rent should be around 400AED psf minimum when they are done, which sounds very appealing.

However what would the maintenance fees be like in these towers (or any other commercial towers) in Business Bay? Could we be looking at as much as 75AED psf?

ardi · April 19th, 2008, 12:59 PM

AED 75, where did you get that? Burj Al Arab?

Smokeey · April 19th, 2008, 01:36 PM

Its was just a wild guess

Just thinking that if rents are as high as 400AED psf for commercial space then maintenance charges would surely be fairly high too - I mean they cant be as cheap as the maintenance fees for residential spaces in Business Bay (which I would guess to be around 25-30AED psf - again this is just a pure guess on my part

)

I really do hope its lower!

ardi · April 19th, 2008, 04:28 PM

its AED 10 to 15.

Smokeey · April 19th, 2008, 05:54 PM

If thats the case then commercial property definitely seems like a far better investment than residential as it offers much higher rental returns for the same (or marginally higher) maintenance fees, unless I'm missing something else?!

ferrari430 · April 19th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Problem is that the amount of commercial property in BB is astounding. I think it could prove difficult to rent especially at the indicative prices when most of it is ready.

I was watching a report today on bloomberg where the CEO of Daman investments was being interviewed and the overall consensus was that bluchip western companies are still hesitant to list on DIFX and to establish base in Dubai because of non clarity of rules/regulations.

It is all well that floors are sold to speculators in the current climate but I reserve judgement on whether there will be enough end users to occupy these spaces. It is still a great market for flippers/speculators though

DaYFox · April 20th, 2008, 12:09 AM

Calculate with 200-250AED rent! This you will definitely get... Based on this calculation I would pay maximum 3500!

Smokeey · April 20th, 2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrari430

Problem is that the amount of commercial property in BB is astounding. I think it could prove difficult to rent especially at the indicative prices when most of it is ready.

I was watching a report today on bloomberg where the CEO of Daman investments was being interviewed and the overall consensus was that bluchip western companies are still hesitant to list on DIFX and to establish base in Dubai because of non clarity of rules/regulations.

It is all well that floors are sold to speculators in the current climate but I reserve judgement on whether there will be enough end users to occupy these spaces. It is still a great market for flippers/speculators though

Yep for sure there are so many buildings being constructed there and I was also wondering how the heck they would manage to fill up all that space once its all completed. I think there will be a high demand for the most prominent, iconic buildings (like Burj Al Alam, Dancing Towers etc) and those close to the metro station (One Business Bay etc), but it also depends alot on rental rates as DayFox mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaYFox

Calculate with 200-250AED rent! This you will definitely get... Based on this calculation I would pay maximum 3500!

Agreed - I think 250AED rent is a safe estimate and I've tried to base my calculations on this rates and it still seems very positive, especially considering that you can get resale property for around 2500AED psf in the 'good' buildings

ferrari430 · April 20th, 2008, 05:03 PM

I too agree that 250 psf is a resonable rent for BB commercial but be ready for lengthy vacant periods.

I have bought office spaces in JLT but note that there were big banners on Saba tower an year after completion advertsing space (Imre can confirm this) - and Saba is supposed to be one of the early office towers to be completed anywhere in new dubai

Although having said that BB is more strategic in terms of location and the first office tower in BB (from executive towers) is in unprecedented demand according to agents (for resales as far as i know)

AITU · April 20th, 2008, 05:14 PM

A lot of towers leave the advertising banners up even after they have let all the space.

Supposedly current office space in Dubai has a 99% occupation rate. I've spoken to many leasing companies (Asteco, Arenco etc.) who don't expect the current rate on SZR of AED350-375 sq ft to come down much in the next 5 years. The first stage of BB is also expected to lease for around the same rate. Burj Square (less than 1km away) is currently leasing for AED450 sq ft.

Time will tell.....

Smokeey · April 20th, 2008, 05:22 PM

Thanks for that info - very interesting indeed. The impression I got from reading the property digests on the Gowealthy website was that office space was being snapped up everywhere in Dubai at the moment, but that seems not to be the case. (I guess being an estate agent they have a vested interest in 'hyping up' the market

)

I'm having a very tough time making a decision as I have just enough capital to be able to afford either one commercial property in BB or two residential properties in JLT. Just cant make up my mind as to which would be the better long term investment....aargh!!! What do you guys think?

ferrari430 · April 20th, 2008, 07:19 PM

I would say target something that is up for completion soon ie within a year to year and half. In that way you will be in a position where the oversupply in office space hasnt arrived - then do a deal whereby you tie in the lessee for a 3 year period - you wont be able to go much wrong in that.

Also in terms of psf:rent JLT is quite good. You can pick up offices to be completed in 6m-1y for around 1500 psf that are currently renting in the region of 200 - 250 psf. Long term BB could be a better proposition but then you are looking at prices of around 2500 psf and completion of over 2 years from now

rodrt121 · April 20th, 2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad

Hey Chad,

Were did you got this images....

DaYFox · April 20th, 2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferrari430

I would say target something that is up for completion soon ie within a year to year and half. In that way you will be in a position where the oversupply in office space hasnt arrived - then do a deal whereby you tie in the lessee for a 3 year period - you wont be able to go much wrong in that.

Also in terms of psf:rent JLT is quite good. You can pick up offices to be completed in 6m-1y for around 1500 psf that are currently renting in the region of 200 - 250 psf. Long term BB could be a better proposition but then you are looking at prices of around 2500 psf and completion of over 2 years from now

This position I have read now many times... BUT ok, let's assume i am able to tie a tenant for 3 years and what is after those years? I will not find someone? I have to rent for 200AED because there is so much supply?
Live goes on my friend

Smokeey · April 20th, 2008, 08:19 PM

Cheers for the advice fellas. I think long-term Business Bay will be the best for commercial space as its actively being marketed as the 'business hub of the UAE' so I feel that most companies will eventually move there, making other areas possibly less appealing in the future? However, as you rightly say, we are a long way off from completion so it could take a good few years to get to that stage, although I'm not in a rush (am in this for the long term).

Ferrari430 - has your office space in JLT been completed? If so have you found a tenant yet?

AITU · April 20th, 2008, 08:19 PM

Premium locations should always find a tenant, even if you do have to reduce the rent a little.

ferrari430 · April 21st, 2008, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokeey

Cheers for the advice fellas. I think long-term Business Bay will be the best for commercial space as its actively being marketed as the 'business hub of the UAE' so I feel that most companies will eventually move there, making other areas possibly less appealing in the future? However, as you rightly say, we are a long way off from completion so it could take a good few years to get to that stage, although I'm not in a rush (am in this for the long term).

Ferrari430 - has your office space in JLT been completed? If so have you found a tenant yet?

No not yet - completing end of the year but prices have gone up 60% since i bought just over a year ago

Smokeey · April 21st, 2008, 10:34 AM

Congrats man - thats awesome. If I get a similar return in a years time I'll quit my day job

Mavekris · July 26th, 2008, 05:38 PM

It's been a long time since last update

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

April 17th, 2008, 07:39 AM	#61
ardi Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 474 Likes (Received): 0	yeah but at preluanch you'll pay 5% to 10% oof orginal value, in resale you almost have to pay 20% to 30% + Premium, and if you want to buy, buy in Bayswater or One BB cuz its close to completion.

April 17th, 2008, 08:07 PM	#62
Smokeey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 255 Likes (Received): 0	I spoke to Omniyat today - they are quoting Q3 2009 completion for both towers. They estimated that the average rent should be around 400AED psf minimum when they are done, which sounds very appealing. However what would the maintenance fees be like in these towers (or any other commercial towers) in Business Bay? Could we be looking at as much as 75AED psf?

April 19th, 2008, 12:59 PM	#63
ardi Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 474 Likes (Received): 0	AED 75, where did you get that? Burj Al Arab?

April 19th, 2008, 01:36 PM	#64
Smokeey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 255 Likes (Received): 0	Its was just a wild guess Just thinking that if rents are as high as 400AED psf for commercial space then maintenance charges would surely be fairly high too - I mean they cant be as cheap as the maintenance fees for residential spaces in Business Bay (which I would guess to be around 25-30AED psf - again this is just a pure guess on my part ) I really do hope its lower!

April 19th, 2008, 04:28 PM	#65
ardi Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 474 Likes (Received): 0	its AED 10 to 15.

April 19th, 2008, 05:54 PM	#66
Smokeey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 255 Likes (Received): 0	If thats the case then commercial property definitely seems like a far better investment than residential as it offers much higher rental returns for the same (or marginally higher) maintenance fees, unless I'm missing something else?!

April 19th, 2008, 07:45 PM	#67
ferrari430 banglaboy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 495 Likes (Received): 0	Problem is that the amount of commercial property in BB is astounding. I think it could prove difficult to rent especially at the indicative prices when most of it is ready. I was watching a report today on bloomberg where the CEO of Daman investments was being interviewed and the overall consensus was that bluchip western companies are still hesitant to list on DIFX and to establish base in Dubai because of non clarity of rules/regulations. It is all well that floors are sold to speculators in the current climate but I reserve judgement on whether there will be enough end users to occupy these spaces. It is still a great market for flippers/speculators though

April 20th, 2008, 12:09 AM	#68
DaYFox Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 462 Likes (Received): 0	Calculate with 200-250AED rent! This you will definitely get... Based on this calculation I would pay maximum 3500!

April 20th, 2008, 05:03 PM	#70
ferrari430 banglaboy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 495 Likes (Received): 0	I too agree that 250 psf is a resonable rent for BB commercial but be ready for lengthy vacant periods. I have bought office spaces in JLT but note that there were big banners on Saba tower an year after completion advertsing space (Imre can confirm this) - and Saba is supposed to be one of the early office towers to be completed anywhere in new dubai Although having said that BB is more strategic in terms of location and the first office tower in BB (from executive towers) is in unprecedented demand according to agents (for resales as far as i know)

April 20th, 2008, 05:14 PM	#71
AITU Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 343 Likes (Received): 0	A lot of towers leave the advertising banners up even after they have let all the space. Supposedly current office space in Dubai has a 99% occupation rate. I've spoken to many leasing companies (Asteco, Arenco etc.) who don't expect the current rate on SZR of AED350-375 sq ft to come down much in the next 5 years. The first stage of BB is also expected to lease for around the same rate. Burj Square (less than 1km away) is currently leasing for AED450 sq ft. Time will tell.....

April 20th, 2008, 05:22 PM	#72
Smokeey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 255 Likes (Received): 0	Thanks for that info - very interesting indeed. The impression I got from reading the property digests on the Gowealthy website was that office space was being snapped up everywhere in Dubai at the moment, but that seems not to be the case. (I guess being an estate agent they have a vested interest in 'hyping up' the market ) I'm having a very tough time making a decision as I have just enough capital to be able to afford either one commercial property in BB or two residential properties in JLT. Just cant make up my mind as to which would be the better long term investment....aargh!!! What do you guys think?

April 20th, 2008, 07:19 PM	#73
ferrari430 banglaboy Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 495 Likes (Received): 0	I would say target something that is up for completion soon ie within a year to year and half. In that way you will be in a position where the oversupply in office space hasnt arrived - then do a deal whereby you tie in the lessee for a 3 year period - you wont be able to go much wrong in that. Also in terms of psf:rent JLT is quite good. You can pick up offices to be completed in 6m-1y for around 1500 psf that are currently renting in the region of 200 - 250 psf. Long term BB could be a better proposition but then you are looking at prices of around 2500 psf and completion of over 2 years from now

April 20th, 2008, 08:19 PM	#76
Smokeey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 255 Likes (Received): 0	Cheers for the advice fellas. I think long-term Business Bay will be the best for commercial space as its actively being marketed as the 'business hub of the UAE' so I feel that most companies will eventually move there, making other areas possibly less appealing in the future? However, as you rightly say, we are a long way off from completion so it could take a good few years to get to that stage, although I'm not in a rush (am in this for the long term). Ferrari430 - has your office space in JLT been completed? If so have you found a tenant yet?

April 21st, 2008, 10:34 AM	#79
Smokeey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 255 Likes (Received): 0	Congrats man - thats awesome. If I get a similar return in a years time I'll quit my day job

July 26th, 2008, 05:38 PM	#80
Mavekris Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 543 Likes (Received): 0	It's been a long time since last update