TAMPA BAY TRANSPORTATION II (no new topics! post in new thread)

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by cwat212

Did I read it wrong or would this be a loop from approx NPR to east Pasco then South through eastern Hills to Manatee?

From my understanding this would do nothing for the people coming from the north to Pinellas Co. I read it to mean that people coming from the south - Manatee and further would have an alternate to I4 and people from the north would also (Fla turnpike already does this in my opinion). This could help with the nightmare on I75 from Manatee Co. through Brandon/I4 to New Tampa and Pasco. Which is desparately needed.

Without a definite, "No" before more info, I tend to agree with Jason but I wouldn't throw it out without discussion because this is the first attempt at building a road/expressway before the development. New Tampa as my arguement, I agree we need to help with what exists now and I lived in N.Tampa for 2 years (i had to escape). The traffic on I75 was hell, everyday. Every damn day it could take 45 minutes to get from BBD to I4....and yes, it was because people did not know where the hell they were going and cut someone off and caused a major accident.....

The area is going to be developed no matter how much we disagree....maybe it would help if the roads were there first. Just my thoughts.

Jason, would it matter if it were completely a toll road? No Tax Dollars used?

I hope not. New Port Richey couldn't handle it at all. There isn't much room, scratch that, there is NO room for a beltway anywhere near New Port Richey. Everywhere has houses or some other structures. Also, roads would be able to handle this. SR 54 is a bad idea and same with SR 52. There is just no way to build it to New Port Richey.

[cwat212]

Here it is. Front page of the Tribune today.

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBNUJY06QE.html

Sorry Smiley, you were correct. This would help ease the traffic though Tampa that is heading to Pinellas. Also it would offer an alternate rout for the traffic on I75 - north and south.

1. Brandon. Drivers could head east and pick up the beltway to Interstate 4 to go to Orlando or Daytona.

2. South Pasco. Residents could access two interchanges at the Veterans Expressway to head toward Interstate 75

3. North Manatee. The bustling region would get an alternative to I-75. Plus, truckers heading to Port Manatee could skip congested U.S. 41.

4. North Pinellas. Drivers wouldn't have to travel congested Interstate 275 to head east. Tourists would find an easier path in to Pinellas beaches.

[smiley]

Road Would Bypass Congestion

By RICH SHOPES The Tampa Tribune

Published: Jul 28, 2006



Transportation planners are pushing the most sweeping local road project ever: a 100-mile toll road without booths, linking Manatee, Hillsborough, Pasco and Pinellas counties.

The project would enable drivers in the suburbs and those passing through to bypass the current tangle of roads surrounding Tampa.

The Tampa-Hillsborough County Expressway Authority made the proposal public Thursday, suggesting work could start in as little as four years and wrap up by 2015.

The authority will present details Wednesday to Hillsborough County commissioners, then to commissions and agencies in three other Tampa Bay area counties.

New options for local drivers would include:

1. Brandon. Drivers could head east and pick up the beltway to Interstate 4 to go to Orlando or Daytona.

2. South Pasco. Residents could access two interchanges at the Veterans Expressway to head toward Interstate 75

3. North Manatee. The bustling region would get an alternative to I-75. Plus, truckers heading to Port Manatee could skip congested U.S. 41.

4. North Pinellas. Drivers wouldn't have to travel congested Interstate 275 to head east. Tourists would find an easier path in to Pinellas beaches.

"Every elected official and every staff member at all the agencies we have talked to have been supportive," said Martin Stone, the expressway authority's planning director.

Officials at the authority's offices in Tampa stressed that the project will require several years of study and could change dramatically from its working draft.

Whether the road is built will hinge on whether the authority can build bridges with transportation agencies and communities and juggle the twin demands of financing and engineering. Scores of public hearings would be required.

Then there is the cost: Executive Director Ralph Mervine and others at the authority refused to name a price. Judging by other projects, the figure could reach hundreds of millions if not a billion dollars or more with land acquisition - one south Hillsborough stretch is an unused railroad track - as well as engineering and construction.

Unlike most highway projects, however, this one would have a dedicated source of revenue with tolls to pay back loans.

Engineering Began 6 Years Ago
The project can be traced to a request six years ago by Kim DeBosier, then chairwoman of the expressway authority, to identify current and future road deficiencies and recommend solutions.

Engineers at the authority worked on the project for four years straight until April 2004, when an elevated segment of the Lee Roy Selmon Expressway collapsed. A year later, they turned their attention back to the beltway.

The road's aim, Mervine said, is twofold: to relieve congestion on I-75 and I-4 and to provide major new arteries to fast-growing communities in northern Manatee, eastern Hillsborough, southern Pasco and northern Pinellas.

Motorists would have access to the beltway at 29 interchanges. It would open with four lanes, two in each direction, but include enough land for future expansion.

Still undecided is whether to fold in State Road 54 in southern Pasco. An easement next to the highway might provide enough room for a road or elevated lanes.

In addition, the entire length of the roadway would feature the latest toll technology: high-speed digital video cameras to record a car's make, model and license plate.

A vehicle's information, or "fingerprint," would be stored electronically to be extracted later for billing purposes. Cars would not need SunPass devices nor would they need to slow down for the cameras.

Stone, the authority's planning director, said a similar system will be tested this fall on the new elevated lanes of the Selmon Expressway.

"Everything here has been carefully planned out and will be carefully planned out," he said.

Some Area Leaders Critical
Local officials contacted Thursday generally warmed to the beltway idea, but some, such as Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio, argued that more emphasis should be placed on mass transit.

"Mass transit is really the future of our community. There can always be another roadway that could be built, but building new roadways isn't cost-efficient anymore," Iorio said.

Tampa Councilman John Dingfelder agreed, saying beltways sometimes create more problems than they solve. He cited Atlanta's unrestrained development, in part triggered by a beltway.

"The big loop roads, while they might alleviate some congestion, at the end of the day, contribute to urban sprawl," Dingfelder said. "Wherever you have the interchanges, you are absolutely encouraging sprawl development."

Linda Saul-Sena, a councilwoman and member of the county's Metropolitan Planning Organization, agreed.

"A major roadway in an underdeveloped area tends to act like a magnet that attracts growth," she said.

Hillsborough Commissioner Brian Blair gave the project a tentative thumbs up: "It's a great idea because it's paid for by user fees. It gives people another option and cuts down gridlock."

State Rep. Sandra Murman, a Republican candidate for state Senate in a district that might be affected by the beltway, said it could alleviate truck traffic on local streets.

"We have to do something," Murman said. "Anything we can do to relieve the congestion from all this growth is good. We need to build more transit corridors within these high-growth areas."

Mervine said the project doesn't close the door to mass transit. As for sprawl, he said, it's already here. The project targets areas destined for future growth.

"Everywhere you look, what you see is congestion."

Reporters Ellen Gedalius and Mark Holan contributed to this report. Reporter Rich Shopes can be reached at rshopes@tampatrib.com or (813) 259-7633.

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBNUJY06QE.html

[smiley]

Ok, my official position (for now) - build the north section (south corridor) to I-4 - to allow relief to north Pinellas and Pasco and keep them out of the main tampa roads. Acquire the land for the southern leg, but wait on that part because it is not needed yet - though with all the crap going in there, you may need it eventually.

The Tampa folks are now playing the Rhonda Storms role of caring about nothing (blindly of course because it creates needless congestion in Tampa) but their narrow constituencies.

This area needs some new roads (like the north leg and an east west road though pinellas - I am assuming they really will turn 19 into a limited access road almost all the way outside St. PEte)) and it needs rail. THey should not be exclusive, especially with toll roads - which I absolutely favor - look how well the crosstown and Veternas (which were both completely dissed in the early days) turned out.

[FloridaFuture]

I'm not a traffic expert but I don't think that bypass will help unless it crosses Hillsborough farther to the South then passing in Southern Pasco.

[cwat212]

FlaFuture

even the so called traffic experts can't fix traffic, hell traffic experts were used to build what we now have! don't sell yourself short, your opinion is just as good as theirs.....

[FloridaFuture]

Originally Posted by cwat212

FlaFuture

even the so called traffic experts can't fix traffic, hell traffic experts were used to build what we now have! don't sell yourself short, your opinion is just as good as theirs.....

Well it just seems like they plan these pointless highways that just spend away every penny the goverment has, just so they can boast a nice highway grid system on a a map to look big. Are highways needed in the right spot? Yes. But making a loop around Tampa in the middle of no where just to build more communities (which don't help us anyway because of low impact fees) just seems like something the goverment does to say, look we did something, we don't care if it works. Overall the North corridor plan is nice but the rest of it I could leave.

[I-275westcoastfl]

I like the plan for the loop, the high speed digital camera thing should be in every toll road. I want to know how many lanes this thing would have and how much can it be expanded because if they dont leave room for expansion they are idiots.

[FloridaFuture]

I would rather just have them begin a mass transit plan with the money they'll use on this project.

[smiley]

I personally don't even care if the north road stops at I-75 - that should be ok if they widen 75 enough. They need the north road though

[97Roll]

The Tampa Bay metro area is growing - and it is forecasted to continue to grow rapidly. Areas that appear to be in the "middle of nowhere" now will not be that way for long. The growth is going to occur whether this highway is built or not. It will probably occur faster once this road is built but it's going to happen one way or another as long as the local governments allow it to. The time to plan for expanded highway infrastructure is now - before the price of right-of-way becomes prohibitively expensive. Yes, this area desperately needs an improved transit network but as long as this area continues to grow, you cannot just abandon any expansion to the highway network.

[TampaMike]

Looking at this map, I am very confused. For Pasco, it looks like the south corridor intersects at the intersection of Little Road and SR 54. But the south corridor would be going through ritirement homes and way too much homes will be taken away if I am seeing correctly. It will also be going through Longleaf, a major community, and many other homes. I can't tell from the map, but it will be going through Starkey Park or just north of it. Many things don't look able to happen.

[I-275westcoastfl]

The highway would use 54 which then goes into Trinity Blvd in a rich area of tarpon springs and if you look at google earth there is room around the roads to be used so i guess it would be a good pick. It would connect to 19 above Keystone Rd. As for the road in new port richey it would have to be widened because its just a 2 lane road now.

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

The highway would use 54 which then goes into Trinity Blvd in a rich area of tarpon springs and if you look at google earth there is room around the roads to be used so i guess it would be a good pick. It would connect to 19 above Keystone Rd. As for the road in new port richey it would have to be widened because its just a 2 lane road now.

I can see that it goes down Tarpon Road to US 19. But will all of it be 6-lane? Because Tarpon Rd can not do that. Part of it is on hills and one area you have a hill on one side and then a drop off on the other side. What will they do?

Looking at it, it still looks like it will intersect with Little Rd. Then going through some farm land and then going through a small business district before hitting East Lake Rd. Because the intersection lines up with the other corridor that goes down SR 52. I'll have to look at it closer, but it isn't looking good.

[jvance75]

actually either way tarpon ave from US19 to East Lake is going to be upgraded either way to six-lanes, which should be cool because its very steep and hilly....the project starts in 07'

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by jvance75

actually either way tarpon ave from US19 to East Lake is going to be upgraded either way to six-lanes, which should be cool because its very steep and hilly....the project starts in 07'

But there is just no way. If some how, they make some road structure that goes over a steep drop-off, there is no way they will be able to have 6-lanes, not even 4.

[I-275westcoastfl]

They can level land lol

[TampaMike]

Impossible aswell. On top of the hill is a church and going west from there, there are homes and condos. You will be able to make it into a 6-lane when you get to the end, but there is homes and a gast station aswell.

[LuvHighrisers]

It is silly to think that even if they ever do build this road, that it will be built solely on unused cow pastures. The government's right of eminent domain allows for the acquiring of the property (yes even churches) whether the property owners want to sell or not. At the moment these are very general suggested routes. No doubt if they move forward there will be a variety of actual corridors proposed (let's not forget all the environmental studies either) but at the moment we are a long way from specific scenarios.

[jvance75]

tarpon/keystone from US19 to East Lake has been on the books for a while, they had to even buy the houses across from the cemetery. There are a ton of links about this on the Pinellas MPO, it is a county project by the way. It will be four and six lanes, other than the geography of the land, they plan on doing this because of easy ROW, traffic congestion, and land owners selling out to townhouses, apartments, and homes.....

http://www.pinellascounty.org/MPO/maps/pccip.pdf