Archaeology Thread

[MaduraiSelvam]

Originally Posted by VaastuShastra

So I take it you have read them cover to cover?

Can smell lots of frustation in this phrase.

[skganji]

Originally Posted by MaduraiSelvam

Can smell lots of frustation in this phrase.

Your statement is provocative. This is unncecessary. What are you trying to prove here ?.

[harsh1802]

HYDERABAD: Pre-historic paintings using vegetable oils were traced last month on rocks within caves in the forest near Srisailam and interior Warangal district.

They were detected by the technical staff of Archaeology Department following information by a saint and some other local tribals, Archaeology Director P. Chenna Reddy told a news conference here on Thursday.

He said the paintings included animals, fish, some geometrical designs and scenes of hunting and dancing. They were in red ochre and white pigment colours. The paintings in Akkamahadevi caves of Srisailam hill ranges were ascribed to late Mesolithic times of 3,000 BC. The other paintings on rock shelters at Narsapur and Bandal of Tadvai mandal in Warangal district were dated to megalithic times of 1,000 BC. Some of the paintings were superimposed, depicting highly developed anatomical features and curves.

The features were of early historic times. Mr. Reddy said further survey was required in these areas for more information on rock art sites and rock shelters. The department planned to videograph the rock art and preserve it for posterity.

He also said a priceless stone sculpted with Parswanatha, Mahishasuramardani and Brahma with his consort Saraswati seated on a swan was also recovered in Warangal district recently. A Buddhist settlement was found in Peddauppalam village of Rayavaram mandal in Visakhapatnam district.

The director said the ancient temple complex at Mulug Ghanpur in Warangal district would be reconstructed as part of the Kakatiya Heritage Project.

Source

[MaduraiSelvam]

Originally Posted by skganji

Your statement is provocative. This is unncecessary. What are you trying to prove here ?.

If you had known Vaastusastra and his reactions in our earlier discussions you will understand his sarcasm.

[skganji]

Originally Posted by MaduraiSelvam

If you had known Vaastusastra and his reactions in our earlier discussions you will understand his sarcasm.

I found your comment more sarcastic than his. I kept quiet on his comments because I realized there is no point in fighting like kids on this forum. If you want to prove some thing, back it up with facts . I put some facts about Dwaraka sea excavations and they were deleted. I got frustrated and didn't make any further attempts to post any thing here.

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by skganji

Forgive me if it sounds rude, but I would like to disagree with you on the time period of RigVeda. All the Vedas were existent orally for a long time in the Indian Sub-continent . However they were composed by the Sage Vyasa around 3000 B.C to save them from extinction . I don't accept that RigVeda is formulated just around 1500 B.C.

I find a contradiction here. It would require the existence of some script for the copious Vedas to have been committed to text. Since (according to you) IVC and Vedic are the same people, it would mean IVC script would have been used for this purpose (since timeline is contemporaneous). However, what we see is that IVC script is not sufficient enough to handle such volume of texts as we only see small seals with insufficient characters.

Even assuming that the script was sufficient enough for the purpose and the Vedas were committed to text using IVC scripts, and accepting your proposal that the civilization continued in Sarasvati valley, how would you account for the absence of any writings in Sanskrit in IVC script for two and a half millenia (from 3000 BC to 400 BC)? That would be pretty hard to explain. The first attested writing in Sanskrit happens only in 150 AD! - much later than even Tamil around 500 BC in Adichanallur.

I am sure you have some explanation to offer to explain the contradiction here.

[Fusionist]

..

[skganji]

Originally Posted by Arasu

. The first attested writing in Sanskrit happens only in 150 AD! - much later than even Tamil around 500 BC in Adichanallur.
.

I disagree with you on this point. Sanskrit had been inscribed in lot of stone and Iron additcs during Mauryan Empire.King Asoka's edicts are mostly written in Sanskrit , Magadhi using Brahmi Script. These are atleast dated back to 250 B.C. Here are some famous rock and Iron pillar edicts. Some of these edicts are also in greek and Aramaic.

a) Asoka's first Rock Inscription at Girnar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka's_Major_Rock_Edict

b) Asoka's Stone edict at Lumbini.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Ashoka

c) Asoka's Pillar at Vaishali in Bihar.

Numerous edicts have been found all across India.


You can find interesting information and translation of these edicts at this URLs.

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html

http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad...ans/essay.html

[skganji]

King Asoka's edicts were inscribed in various languages like Sanskrit, Pali and Maghadhi and mostly in Brahmi Script. Here are some of these inscriptions found in south Asia.



Inscriptions at Kanheri Caves by Buddhist Monks , 1st BCE.



Video on Kanheri Caves in Sanjay Gandhi National Park, Borivali, Mumbai.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v7071978efhj2aF6

Asoka's edict in Greek and Aramaic at Kandahar.

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by skganji

I disagree with you on this point. Sanskrit had been inscribed in lot of stone and Iron additcs during Mauryan Empire.King Asoka's edicts are mostly written in Sanskrit , Magadhi using Brahmi Script. These are atleast dated back to 250 B.C. Here are some famous rock and Iron pillar edicts. Some of these edicts are also in greek and Aramaic.

a) Asoka's first Rock Inscription at Girnar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka's_Major_Rock_Edict

b) Asoka's Stone edict at Lumbini.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillars_of_Ashoka

c) Asoka's Pillar at Vaishali in Bihar.

Numerous edicts have been found all across India.


You can find interesting information and translation of these edicts at this URLs.

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/ashoka.html

http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad...ans/essay.html

According to this encyclopedia, the language is Prakrit.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...2/article.html

I am no authority on languages and know very little about the differences between Sanskrit and Prakrits. I would think there is a vast difference between these languages as authoritative works note the language of the edicts as Prakrit and Ashoka chose it to reach the masses. You yourself acknowledged in this column that Buddha chose Prakrit as he wanted to contain Brahminism (vide your notings on April 17th). What was applicable for Buddha should have been true for his follower Ashoka as well.

[skganji]

Originally Posted by Arasu

According to this encyclopedia, the language is Prakrit.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_...2/article.html

I am no authority on languages and know very little about the differences between Sanskrit and Prakrits. I would think there is a vast difference between these languages as authoritative works note the language of the edicts as Prakrit and Ashoka chose it to reach the masses. You yourself acknowledged in this column that Buddha chose Prakrit as he wanted to contain Brahminism (vide your notings on April 17th). What was applicable for Buddha should have been true for his follower Ashoka as well.

They have used various langauges in these stone edicts. I mentioned Maghadi, Sanskrit, Prakrit, Aramaic , Greek in which these edicts were inscriped.Sanskrit is one of them. Prakrit is an Apabhramsha of Sanskrit. The term apabhramsa literally means corrupt or non-standard language. There is very little difference between Sanskrit and Prakrit. Prakrita literally means "natural" as opposed to sanskrita, which literally means "constructed" or "refined. Regarding the April 17th post, it is very well acknowledged by Scholars that Buddha rejected Vedas to avoid animal killing. At a later point, Sankaracharya restablished the authority of the Vedas. However, in my recent reading of Asoka's edicts , I noticed, King Asoka also emphasized to respect brahmins too. I would think that Buddha as a peace loving personality would not have any evil intentions on any particular community.

For more understanding of Indian languages, please go through this link.

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/scripts.html

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by skganji

They have used various langauges in these stone edicts. I mentioned Maghadi, Sanskrit, Prakrit, Aramaic , Greek in which these edicts were inscriped.Sanskrit is one of them. Prakrit is an Apabhramsha of Sanskrit. The term apabhramsa literally means corrupt or non-standard language. There is very little difference between Sanskrit and Prakrit. Prakrita literally means "natural" as opposed to sanskrita, which literally means "constructed" or "refined. Regarding the April 17th post, it is very well acknowledged by Scholars that Buddha rejected Vedas to avoid animal killing. At a later point, Sankaracharya restablished the authority of the Vedas. However, in my recent reading of Asoka's edicts , I noticed, King Asoka also emphasized to respect brahmins too. I would think that Buddha as a peace loving personality would not have any evil intentions on any particular community.

For more understanding of Indian languages, please go through this link.

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/scripts.html

The below mentioned book published by the Central Institute of Indian Languages clearly specifies that Sanskrit was not one of the languages used by Ashoka.

http://www.ciil-ebooks.net/html/iie/five.htm

Can you provide some supporting evidence to the contrary? I would appreciate that. Thanks. I would be enlightened.

[skganji]

Originally Posted by Arasu

The below mentioned book published by the Central Institute of Indian Languages clearly specifies that Sanskrit was not one of the languages used by Ashoka.

http://www.ciil-ebooks.net/html/iie/five.htm

Can you provide some supporting evidence to the contrary? I would appreciate that. Thanks. I would be enlightened.

http://www.indiaprofile.com/monument...scriptions.htm

Ashoka's edicts are found scattered in more than thirty places throughout India, Nepal, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Most of them are written in Brahmi script. The Magadhi language is used in the edicts in the eastern part of the sub-continent, which is probably the official language of Ashoka's court. The language in the edicts found in the western part of India is nearer to Sanskrit. One bilingual edict in Afghanistan is written in Aramaic and Greek. Ashoka's edicts have survived over the period of centuries is because they are written on the rocks and stone pillars.

There is another famour pillar called Heliodorus Pillar, which is dated back to 2nd century B.C is in Prakrit influenced by Sanskrit . This is dated by Dr. J.H.Marshall. This inscription in Brahmi Script and its meaning is given below.

devadevasya vasudevasya garuda dhvajah ayam karitah
heliodorena bhagavatena diyasa putrena taksasilakena

Translation :This Garuda pillar dedicated to Vasudeva, the lord of lords, has been erected by Heliodorus, a devotee of the Vedic culture, the son of Dion and resident of Taxsasila.

yavanadutena agatena maharajasya antalikitasya upantat sakasam rajnah
kasi putrasya bhagabhadrasya tratuh varsena caturdasena rajyena vardhamanasya

Translation
Who had come as an ambassador from the great King Antialkidas to the kingdom of King Bhagabhadra, the son of Kasi, the protector reigning prosperously in the fourteenth year of his kingship.

You can find more about Heliodorus Pillar at this link.

http://www.burningcross.net/crusades...ng-theory.html

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by skganji

http://www.indiaprofile.com/monument...scriptions.htm

Ashoka's edicts are found scattered in more than thirty places throughout India, Nepal, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Most of them are written in Brahmi script. The Magadhi language is used in the edicts in the eastern part of the sub-continent, which is probably the official language of Ashoka's court. The language in the edicts found in the western part of India is nearer to Sanskrit. One bilingual edict in Afghanistan is written in Aramaic and Greek. Ashoka's edicts have survived over the period of centuries is because they are written on the rocks and stone pillars.

There is another famour pillar called Heliodorus Pillar, which is dated back to 2nd century B.C is in Prakrit influenced by Sanskrit . This is dated by Dr. J.H.Marshall. This inscription in Brahmi Script and its meaning is given below.

devadevasya vasudevasya garuda dhvajah ayam karitah
heliodorena bhagavatena diyasa putrena taksasilakena

Translation :This Garuda pillar dedicated to Vasudeva, the lord of lords, has been erected by Heliodorus, a devotee of the Vedic culture, the son of Dion and resident of Taxsasila.

yavanadutena agatena maharajasya antalikitasya upantat sakasam rajnah
kasi putrasya bhagabhadrasya tratuh varsena caturdasena rajyena vardhamanasya

Translation
Who had come as an ambassador from the great King Antialkidas to the kingdom of King Bhagabhadra, the son of Kasi, the protector reigning prosperously in the fourteenth year of his kingship.

You can find more about Heliodorus Pillar at this link.

http://www.burningcross.net/crusades...ng-theory.html

I would have expected a better source than a website that appears to be selling tourism and hotels and another that appears to be religion oriented that talks about 3000 BC records in Sanskrit when we are arguing about 300 BC. Still nothing that says the language is Sanskrit ( only closer to Sanskrit from a tourism website). Many languages in India today would fit this description. Anyway, I will stop here. Thank you for your clarifications.

[skganji]

Originally Posted by Arasu

I would have expected a better source than a website that appears to be selling tourism and hotels and another that appears to be religion oriented that talks about 3000 BC records in Sanskrit when we are arguing about 300 BC. Still nothing that says the language is Sanskrit ( only closer to Sanskrit from a tourism website). Many languages in India today would fit this description. Anyway, I will stop here. Thank you for your clarifications.

Prakrit is the closest Apabhramsa of Sanskrit. The incription on the Heliodorus pillar very closely matches the sanskrit Verses from ancient Vedic texts . Language undergoes changes in time. I don't have a problem accepting that Prakrit closely matches Sanskrit. Lot of Buddhist teachings found in Tibet and Srilanka were written in Sanskrit, Prakrit. I also found that in Europe they found Newton Stone inscription which contained Sanskrit words. This is dated back 400 B.C. I think I have done my job to convince you that Sanskrit was inscriped in ancient times. Your acceptance or rejection of my statements is not in my hands.

[skganji]

An excellent article about the Sanskrit Inscription on Newton Stone dated 500 B.C, similarities between Egyptian and Sanskrit gods, Interesting details about StoneHenge.


http://stonecircles-and-stonehenge.blogspot.com/

[Marathaman]

Haryana village settles atop Mauryan empire, ASI in a quandary
21 Dec 2008, 2300 hrs IST, Deepender Deswal, TNN
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POLARH (KAITHAL): Unknown to them, 3,500 people have been living in a village in Haryana, which has turned out to be the ruins of the Mauryan
empire, a 2000-year-old civilization the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) now wants to unearth.

The residents of this dusty hamlet on Kaithal-Patiala road in Rohtak district fear dislocation as the ASI has decided to recover the lost heritage. The action follows a Punjab and Haryana high court directive asking ASI to clear all sites of historical importance in the region by September 30 next year.

However, with the villagers resolute on "not leaving their homes at any cost'', the district administration and ASI are in a quandary. Sources in ASI, Haryana, said they have to obey the high court order, issued after a judgment on a petition filed by Munshi Ram of Batala, Punjab.

The ASI had issued notices to about 580 families in the village, located 12 km from Kaithal, to shift in June. The residents strongly protested against the move and refused to listen to the deputy commissioner who accompanied ASI officials to the village. Later the residents set up a sangharsh samiti to chart their strategy.

Balraj Singh, the husband of sarpanch Sukhvinder Kaur, told TOI, "The ASI is eyeing about 20-30 acres upon which we have built our houses. We had received notices to leave the place. Now, we are told the high court has given ASI fresh directions to remove the residential premises. We will not allow this to happen at any cost and counter any move to displace us.''

Deputy commissioner Vikas Gupta admitted to visiting the village, but denied receiving any "directive to remove the encroachments in Polarh village''.

Madav Acharya, a retired archeologist once associated with excavations in the village, said, "There are many protected sites on which residential localities have come up since 1947. The ASI has the ownership of Polarh village land, which is a protected archeological site under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Sites and Remains Act, 1958.''

He added, "The administration and ASI have no option but to remove the encroachments by displacing the residents or face contempt proceedings.''

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/I...ow/3870568.cms

[skganji]

Can any body post the findings of the excavations at Kalibangan, Rajasthan by the ASI ?.

[Marathaman]

2000-yr-old Shiva shrine found
23 Feb 2009, 0327 hrs IST, Shailvee Sharda, TNN
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LUCKNOW: Believed to be among the oldest brick shrines in India, Lucknow University’s department of ancient Indian history and archaeology has
2000-yr-old Shiva shrine found
Shiva temple unearthed by a team from Lucknow University's ancient Indian history and archaeology department (TOI)
More Pictures
unearthed a 2,000-year-old Shiva temple as part of its excavation project recently in Uttar Pradesh’s Unnao district.

‘‘It’s actually a complex comprising five temples,’’ Prof D P Tewari of the Lucknow University said. ‘‘While four temples belong to the Kushana period (1st-3rd century AD or 2,000 years ago), it appears that the primary temple was constructed during the Sunga period (2nd century BC to 1st century AD or 2,200 years ago).’’

The temple site is a mound in Sanchankot in Unnao. The excavations have been going on since 2004, when UGC cleared the project for funding. ‘‘A lot of things have come to fore since we began, but the temple complex has suddenly given impetus to our research,’’ said Prof Tewari.

Spread across an area of 600 acres, the temple is made of baked bricks. In India, most of the brick temples were built in the Gupta period which existed in the fourth century AD. The temple’s architecture is ‘apsidal’ (semi-circular or u-shaped) in nature.

The LU has many artifacts to conclude that Lord Shiva was worshipped in this temple. Prof Tewari said, ‘‘A terracotta seal bearing the legend of ‘Kaalanjar peeth’ in Brahmi script was found from the site in Dec 2008.’’

A shivling, trishul, nandi bull, and a river are inscribed over the seal. The legend of ‘Kaalanjar peeth’ is inscribed just below the river.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/I...ow/4172761.cms

[RiSHi]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/a...2128936835.cms

Harappan-era cemetery found
4 Mar 2009, 0239 hrs IST, Deepender Deswal, TNN

FARMANA(Rohtak): In an extraordinary archaeological finding, a big housing complex

that matured during the Harappan era has been discovered
in this little known village
about 40 km from Rohtak.

A cemetery belonging to the same civilization which existed about 3500-3000 BC has also been found at an adjacent site, where nearly 70 skeletons have been unearthed so far.

The team of archaeologists from Research Institute for Humanity and Nature, Kyoto Japan, Deccan College, Pune and Maharshi Dayanand University, Rohtak, discovered the habitation site spread over 18.5 hectare. It has four big complexes and a cemetery spread over about three hectare.

"This is easily among the largest habitation locality of the Harappan era. We have so far excavated one complex which has 26 rooms, 3 to 4 kitchens, an equal number of bathrooms and a courtyard in the centre. The size of the rooms vary from 6x6 to 16x20," said Prof Manmohan Singh of MD University.

The excavations indicate that this region was part of the 5,000 years old Indus Valley culture, considered one of the most advanced urban civilizations in ancient times.

The digging of the burial ground has revealed many facts which would help in studying the lives of the Harappan people. Vivek Dangi, a research scholar associated with graveyard excavation, categorized the burials into three types.

In the Indus Valley tradition, people used to bury the dead with things that belonged to them. In secondary burial, they were interred with a few bones and other articles. In the third type of burials, only stuff like pots, goblets, bakers, studs, miniature pots, plates, bowls were found that indicates they used to perform symbolic burial of the missing people.

He says the skeleton of a middle-aged woman had three shell bangles, two copper bangles, copper earrings, beads and ornaments on the feet, indicating her wealthy status. Nilesh, a research scholar from Deccan College, Pune, says they had been working on the site for last three years. "We work for about three months in a year and our present phase is likely to end next month."