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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:08 PM   #161
arxeos
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if non muslims where not allowed why did they take children from greek/serb etc families and brainwashed them?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:12 PM   #162
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Because children have no religion. You compare belief of 23 years old man and 3 years old child?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:14 PM   #163
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by 3 years most orthodox children would already be baptized
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:18 PM   #164
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who cares if they are baptized.. religion is in mind not in a water sink.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:19 PM   #165
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how can it be in your mind if its not your own choosing to become a muslim?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:27 PM   #166
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:29 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jünyus Brütüs View Post
Mother tongue is the language a human being learns from birth. Most of the Anatolia was bilingual back in those times.
Proof? So if he was bilingual in Armenian/Greek and Ottoman Turkish that does not make him Ottoman Turkish. His parents were christian orthodox Armenians/Greeks thus their mother language was Armenian/Greek which is what Sinan's mother language most probably was.

I'm multilingual. I speak 9 languages. Cypriot Greek, Modern Greek, English, German, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, French and Mandarin Chinese. Does that make me Cypriot-Greek-English-German-Dutch-Spanish-Portuguese-French-Chinese?

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He was volunteer since nonmuslims were not allowed in Ottoman army. A 23 years old nonmuslim was really unacceptable in the army unlike if he became muslim voluntarily. Ottomans were taken small children, not 23 years old adults.

I don't think there were any Byzantine examples in Kayseri. Byzantine churches were model for Ottoman mosques long time before Sinan.
All sources say that he was drafted when he was 23 years old (1512)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinan
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/545603/Sinan

So your argument is flawed once again.

No examples of Byzantine Architecture in Kayseri?! LOL Whatever happened to the beautiful castle of Kayseri? Was it demolished?

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/a...enewsid=115634
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...313731/Kayseri
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Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:41 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick View Post
Proof? So if he was bilingual in Armenian/Greek and Ottoman Turkish that does not make him Ottoman Turkish. His parents were christian orthodox Armenians/Greeks thus their mother language was Armenian/Greek which is what Sinan's mother language most probably was.

I'm multilingual. I speak 9 languages. Cypriot Greek, Modern Greek, English, German, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, French and Mandarin Chinese. Does that make me Cypriot-Greek-English-German-Dutch-Spanish-Portuguese-French-Chinese?
Please read all of my posts, understand them and then reply



Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick View Post
All sources say that he was drafted when he was 23 years old (1512)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinan
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/545603/Sinan
Thanks, these links give quite good info about his Armenian parents, his architecture education in Turkish schools, his works etc...


Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick View Post
No examples of Byzantine Architecture in Kayseri?! LOL Whatever happened to the beautiful castle of Kayseri? Was it demolished?

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/a...enewsid=115634
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...313731/Kayseri
Kayseri castle is just an ordinary fortress you can find anywhere in the world. I don't think Sinan took any monument of Kayseri as a model.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:47 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Jünyus Brütüs View Post
Please read all of my posts, understand them and then reply




Thanks, these links give quite good info about his Armenian parents, his architecture education in Turkish schools, his works etc...




Kayseri castle is just an ordinary fortress you can find anywhere in the world. I don't think Sinan took any monument of Kayseri as a model.
1. You claimed his mother language was Ottoman Turkish for which you have no evidence and all that is known about his early life points to the contrary.

2. You obviously chose to ignore the fact that all sources state that he was drafted at the age of 23 when you claimed that he was dafted as a child.

3. You claimed that there was no Byzantine Architecture in Kayseri. I've proved you wrong.

And I can read and comprehend what you write very well thank you. I've also provided both neutral and turkish sources for what I say.

I have never seen anyone ignore facts as much as this. Oh wait. That's a lie. Instanbullu as well.
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Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。
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Old May 8th, 2009, 04:57 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick View Post
1. You claimed his mother language was Ottoman Turkish for which you have no evidence and all that is known about his early life points to the contrary.
If he was not able to speak Turkish so how did he communicate with grand vizers? in Greek? impossible since he had Armenian parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick View Post
2. You obviously chose to ignore the fact that all sources state that he was drafted at the age of 23 when you claimed that he was dafted as a child.
I have never claimed that he was drafted as a child, read again. I've claimed that he became devshirme by voluntarily since Ottomans took little children. If someone became devshirme at his 23 so he's obviously volunteer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick View Post
3. You claimed that there was no Byzantine Architecture in Kayseri. I've proved you wrong.
Don't make me repeat myself. I said, "I don't think Kayseri has any example of Byzantine architecture. I don't surprised, as an Anatolian I know specialities of Byzantine architecture better than you and seriously eastern Turkish cities don't carry specialites of Byzantine architecture, Persian or Armenian influence are much more higher.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:08 PM   #171
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do easterners know more about byzantinte architecture than greeks?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:10 PM   #172
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Isn't Byzantine Empire actually called Eastern Roman Empire? so yes, they do..
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:14 PM   #173
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it is indeed but some people if you say east rome they dont know the difference so byzantine is commonly used today. but wasnt the official language greek, wasnt it called the greek empire , did you miss the parts where historians call the byzantines greeks and did the vikings lie when they called the people of miklagård greeks? didnt emperors self declare as greeks?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:15 PM   #174
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yes, so what?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:16 PM   #175
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by the way when you say your anatolian your saying your an easterner and i agree with you , somewhere in central asia are your roots since your a turk right?
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #176
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yes, so what?
you where the one that said easterners know more about the architecture of the people that buildt it
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:21 PM   #177
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by the way when you say your anatolian your saying your an easterner and i agree with you , somewhere in central asia are your roots since your a turk right?
Yes, I am a Turk which is the name of people live in Anatolia. Central Asians on the other hand called Turkic. But actually I myself have Balkan roots, just I don't want to associate myself with Balkans that's why I like to call myself Anatolian which is mother land of the nation I belong
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:23 PM   #178
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you where the one that said easterners know more about the architecture of the people that buildt it
Yes, it's very normal to know about people who lived in your land before you. Don't you know anything about people who lived in Greece back in those times? If so, you must learn your heritage immediately.
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Old May 8th, 2009, 05:30 PM   #179
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you tell me
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Old May 8th, 2009, 06:30 PM   #180
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aaah this is never gonna stop
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