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Old June 16th, 2006, 09:16 PM   #21
DMAG
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What was previously in that spot?
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Old June 16th, 2006, 11:14 PM   #22
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parking lot
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Old June 16th, 2006, 11:48 PM   #23
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yeah, why is this building so expensive?? have construction prices risen that much??

And how come nyers don't like mega tall buildings?? Haven't they grown accustomed to it?
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Old June 17th, 2006, 02:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
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And how come nyers don't like mega tall buildings?? Haven't they grown accustomed to it?
That's not true at all!

This is a huge city we're talking about.

No one individual can speak for many.

Because of 9/11, the so-called, "family of the victims" have been doing everything in their power to prevent skyscrapers from rising on their, "sacred ground".

But wait, those so-called victims don't own the land, but yet they push their weight around.

How come the so-called, "family of the victims" (they are not actual victims themselves) don't go after the airline industry the way they are going after skyscrapers in New York City

By the way, NY'ers love super tall skyscrapers!
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Old June 17th, 2006, 03:07 AM   #25
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Most New Yorkers don't love meg-tall buildings. When Trump wanted to build the world's tallest building on the UWS, he was blocked by the community. When Trump wanted to build an 800 foot tower in Turtle Bay, the community broke his balls, as they're currently doing to Solow for an 860 foot tower. Also, look at how Ratner was taken over the barrel and forced to give community perks simply to build the 800+ foot Beekman Street Tower.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 03:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Most New Yorkers don't love meg-tall buildings.
Your opinion does not match the millions of people who do.

Only the few in the affected neighborhood are heard.

Oh, the powerful and influential maybe, but not the majority.

How about a vote
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Old June 17th, 2006, 08:40 AM   #27
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Nice design
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Old June 17th, 2006, 09:31 AM   #28
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Lloyd and fish, you are both right, in a way. Most New Yorkers don't hate tall buildings. They don't care one way or the other.

However, there's a certain portion of the population who despises tall buildings or new buildings even if they are not necessarily tall. They are called NIMBYs.

While they may be a minority, they are a very VOCAL minority. When someone proposes to building something new or tall, these people will do everything they can to stop it. Many of them serve on Community Boards. The CB have an input into what gets developed in their neighborhoods. Although the CB's don't have direct control over what gets built, they have powerful influence. They pressure the local politicians to fight for them as well. They also can sue and delay projects in the courts until it becomes too uneconomical and the developers just simply give up.

Like Lloyd said, many and I mean many projects, big, medium and small have been cancelled or downsized in New York over the years because of them. Besides the ones Lloyd mentioned, I can remember off-hand a good many supertalls that were axed because of community opposition.

There was a proposal for the New York Coliseum site, where the Time Warner Center is currently. It was supposed to be over 1000 feet and the design, IMO, was just drop dead gorgeous (far better than what is there now). It would've become a New York icon if it was built. This was back in the 80's. The Municipal Arts Society including the now deceased Jackie Onassis (yes, JFK's widow) protested mercilessly, base on the reason that it would block the sunlight from reaching Central Park. They even gathered in the park holding up black umbrellas to represent the shadow.

The shadow claim was obviously exaggerated because, a study was conducted and it showed that the twinned towers (which was set back and had a taper at the top) did not cast a shadow onto the park. But nevertheless, the protesters were successful and so the site were to sit for another decade and a half until Related Cos. came in at the request of then Mayor Guiliani to develop it.

Another big project was the proposal for the World's Tallest at the site of the current One Worldwide Plaza. This one was also defeated by the community and they had to downsize it to what it is today, a mere 750 ft.

There was also another big one proposed back in the 80's by the Travelstead company for a 1000+ footer on the site where Bear Stearn's World Headquarters is right now. Let me tell you, if you guys saw the design for this proposal, you would salivate. It would look good even for today. Instead we got the SOM octagon that is there now.

There are a lot more examples and I can go on and on. But getting back to this tower, many of you don't know this, but when Goldman Sachs early on proposed to build this tower, many residents in Battery Park City were against it. They did not want to see this site get developed. But because they had little say, and the city and state were behind it completely, there was very little they can do legally other than to go along with it. But to appease the community anyway, Goldman Sachs threw in a few perks for them, like a new public library and community center off site.

Some of you asked why it is so expensive? It is expensive because the trading floors in the base are loaded to the gills with high tech goodies. It doesn't look like it from the outside but this is a very cutting edge 21st century building on the inside. Anyway, just be glad they are even building this at all because if the community had it their way, there would be nothing here except maybe a park, low rise recreation facility or a school instead.

Last edited by centreoftheuniverse; June 19th, 2006 at 07:04 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 09:44 AM   #29
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Let me add one more thing. A few years ago, before this tower was proposed, Goldman Sachs wanted to build a new headquarters tower and wanted the city to give them tax breaks to do it. However, the city (under Guiliani) refused to give it to them. Goldman Sachs then threatened to leave New York and go over to New Jersey. They even went as far as building the Cesar Pelli-designed 30 Hudson in Jersey City (pictured below) and was about to leave NY and move their headquarters to Jersey City.

However, there was a little "mutiny" from within and their employees refused to make the move and so Goldman Sachs, left with no other choice, had to find a place in the city to build their headquarters. After some more wrangling and threats, the city and state finally gave in (due to 9/11 and Downtown losing a lot of jobs) and gave them the financial incentives they were looking for in the form of Liberty Bonds.

What's ironic is that if the city gave them the tax breaks they were looking for in the first place, the amount would be far less than what they are getting now and also 30 Hudson in JC would have never been built. As it is right now, there are several thousand Goldman Sachs jobs over in NJ that would've been in NY. New York really dropped the ball here. Looking back in hindsight, the city really made a big blunder with this.

Anyway, to make a long story short, they finally settled on the last developable site in BPC. The site makes all the sense in the world for them because they now are only a PATH ride away from their other campus here:

30 Hudson

The tallest building in New Jersey

Last edited by centreoftheuniverse; June 17th, 2006 at 11:29 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 09:56 AM   #30
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Oh one last thing. Another reason it is difficult to build really tall besides community resistance is zoning. In New York, every site has a certain amount of space that can be built. It is called F.A.R.'s (Floor Area Ratio). Some places have higher F.A.R.'s than others. The higher the F.A.R. the more space you can build up to and thereby higher you go. There are some sites that have exceptions like the World Trade Center, because of one reason or another but most have limited F.A.R.'s therefore you will notice that New York's skyline average around 750 feet or so. The WTC site is owned by the Port Authority of NY and NJ is not technically within NYC's control and therefore doesn't have to adhere to it's zoning requirements.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 01:13 PM   #31
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Thanks for the valued info!
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Old June 17th, 2006, 01:22 PM   #32
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And Whats up with the 30 Hudson now?, empty? or leased out to someother firms.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 02:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
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And Whats up with the 30 Hudson now?, empty? or leased out to someother firms.
I'm not sure but there is one mighty Colgate clock next to it.
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Old July 9th, 2006, 06:48 AM   #34
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hows the foundation coming?
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Old July 9th, 2006, 04:19 PM   #35
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How many floors does it have????
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Old July 9th, 2006, 06:17 PM   #36
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I carries the Downtown look - plain and simple but in a bad way. Rather forgettable Still 226m - I wish they'd build that high in Rotterdam
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