Ahmedabad BRTS

[cncity]

Originally Posted by qwertyasd

Yes, monorail is useful too. But BRT is extremely cost-effective compared to monorail and can be set up extremely quickly. Plus, it weans people away from daily driving. Reduces pollution, fuel consumption.

Anyways i feel its a good experiment, in the worst case. If it does not work out, you could always open up the lanes to normal traffic.

With Indian traffic, the lanes are already open to normal traffic as i saw first hand on my recent trip. Indian people arent really law abiding and enter the BRT lanes no matter what unless you have gates at the entrance of the BRT lanes.So basically you need a security personnel to guard the entry and exit of every BRT lanes if you dont want normal traffic to enter these lanes.

[qwertyasd]

Agreed about the entry and exit. But, the minute you start fining them huge amounts, they will become vigilant! Well, its the same with carpool lanes in western countries. People still enter the lane at the risk of getting caught. If they are caught, they are fined large amounts.

[ramkan]

The diff is that 1 out of 100 go against the rules in WEST, where as it is 99/100 in INDIA

[Luckystreak]

The BRTS routes can be more properly utilized for public transportation. For example, in Munich, Germany the BRTS routes are used by Trams too with the tracks laid at surface level. The tram lines are cleverly intermixed with the bus lines, so that one service does not affect the free movement of the other. Trams being longer than vestibule buses can take more load and is very effective feeder service for other modes of transportation.

[sathya_226]

Originally Posted by Luckystreak

The BRTS routes can be more properly utilized for public transportation. For example, in Munich, Germany the BRTS routes are used by Trams too with the tracks laid at surface level. The tram lines are cleverly intermixed with the bus lines, so that one service does not affect the free movement of the other. Trams being longer than vestibule buses can take more load and is very effective feeder service for other modes of transportation.


Man that is germany! Here we will discuss abt India! nd please dont compare our weired systems with other developed countries!
We are still on that learning curve.


Caveat:

WE USED TO LEARN VERY VERY SLOW BUT THOROUGH!!!!

Cheers!!!

Thanks and regards

[Babji]

Originally Posted by IndiansUnite

From TOI -




Here's a video on the BRTS project in Gujarati. If you know a bit of Hindi then understanding what the guy is saying won't be that difficult.

Mr Modi seems to be firm on this project.
Hopefully we can see some part operational some time this year!

[saurabh85]

Whats efficient about cars and trams sharing the same space especially in crowded Indian cities? I have traveled in kolkata trams and feel they serve no purpose as they are caught in the traffic jams with other vehicles. All i can say is that they just have a heritage value and don't really solve any congestion problems.

[saurabh85]

Agreed! but the trams serve the same purpose as the buses. In fact buses are better in the sense that they can at least maneuver around the traffic but trams can't. Trams are fine for places which are sparsely populated as their movement will not be affected greatly by traffic.

[sgups]

trams have higher capacity than buses and while they are more efficient in their own dedicated right-of-way, they are still more efficient than buses in shared traffic as long as there is demand for it.
1. Most trams have multiple entrances (and it spends less time at a stop than a bus loading/unloading passengers)
2. Since they are electic powered, they speedup and brake faster meaning higher overal speed compared to buses.
3. Smoother ride for its passengers (less jerks)
4. trams have no emissions (at point of use) compared to buses.
5. less noisier
6. Rights-of-way for trams are narrower than for buses. This saves valuable space in cities with high population densities and/or narrow streets.

Yes they have disadvantages too. Schedules get easily affected if a tram breaks down or if there is an accident in its path. They have a higher construction cost (but less operation cost) But overall, if the driving public adjusts to them, they are far more efficient.

This and more are one of the many reasons, Toronto is rebuilding its tram/streetcar network and building new lines along the more denser transit corridors. Knowing that driving culture in India is different than in the west, acceptance of trams will take a long time.

[mailabode]

Hi KolkataUSA,
We dont need very broad roads for having the system shown in the picture. I believe the BRTS being implemented in Ahmedabad is on broader roads than you see in the picture. Europe does not usually have very broad roads in the city. And a lot of cities have mixed bus and tram lanes. Since the BRTS in Ahmedabad already has identified(and even completed parts of the project) for this purpose - space is not a problem.
In general, remember the buses and trams share lanes not everywhere. They share only where they need to coincide. Buses probably wont have space in the congested narrow city centres roads. And in some city centre roads even cars cant be used(due to space constraint or deliberately as policy). And in these places trams can ply easily- the trams can branch off from the shared lanes and into smaller lanes. And this could provide a complete transport system. You wont have trams or buses taking you all by themselves to any destination- but a combination would. (Though trams and cars share certain lanes in europe- i think this is not an option for India at the moment until people learn to respect traffic rules). And i thought laying tram lanes was much much cheaper than laying a railway track. Friend, nothing's too expensive if the returns justify the means. And for India with its huge population- any amount of investment in public transport would make sense- i feel. And if a part of the corruption turnover per annum is diverted into public infrastructure, funds wont be a problem.

Europe works on efficiency of space usage by sophisticated design of systems- they cant have big roads everywhere in their old unplanned cities. In the USA which does not have such problems the whole approach is different. In our unplanned,old cities a combination of parking lots(public or private), connected by buses and trams would be a good solution. To go to the city centre(somewhere in the city)either take a bus or tram or a combination or a combined car- bus/tram journey. And the bus-tram combination does not seem tedious because the system is reliable and is punctual- so planning to the minute or to an accuracy of about 5 minutes (wrt your final stop)is possible. People will eventually know which areas are usually congested at any particular time of the day and use a suitable combination of private and public transport to avoid getting caught up in traffic- and this will help ease overall traffic congestion.

In General: Its more possible in Ahmedabad(Gujarat) than anywhere else in India for one reason- Narendra Modi. With honest and dedicated people like Modi or A.K Antony in charge of a project- the probability of success is far greater than the probablity of failure(pls note- this is apolitical).

Originally Posted by kolkatausa

We have that in Kolkata.

But the tracks are layed right on the roads, so both trams and cars share them which is much more efficient. Recent renovations, improved the tracks by implementing cemented underlays for the tracks, however the carriages are still antiquated.

However, I don't think Amhedabad can afford to have tracks layed down on their streets, its too expensive, and Amhedabad's roads are too narrow.

[mailabode]

The whole idea of the tram (or the bus as planned in Ahmedabad) is to go in its own lane. The system simply follows its rule- go on its own lane, no maneuvering for any reason- any maneuvouring results in chaos. It might seem it occupies valuable space at first glance, but fact is its easier to control the tram on its own lane than control thousands of people who think their own ways while driving, even if they are in Europe or america where rules are strictly followed usually- and one misstep by vehicle drivers can cause an hour of backlog. Mistakes and breakdowns are rare on the tram- thats how its designed to be( am not talking about current trams in Kolkata here, but about countries from where we import the technology where breakdowns happen very very rarely (never do people see it happen)).
And on the contarary the tram is suited to crowded places than sparse ones. Everybody follows rules- the tram lane is crossed by cars or motorbiles etc at a signal usually. With people on the streets its not a problem- for the same reasons SGUPS has stated. The inter arrival time of trams is very low, boarding time less, and the passenger turnover per day for the city's tram system is far greater than for a bus system.

Plus the same lane can also be used for the bus if both are required. Timings are precise like air traffic control.

Originally Posted by saurabh85

Agreed! but the trams serve the same purpose as the buses. In fact buses are better in the sense that they can at least maneuver around the traffic but trams can't. Trams are fine for places which are sparsely populated as their movement will not be affected greatly by traffic.

[saurabh85]

Point taken mate. I only spoke from my experience of traveling on a kolkata tram. i dint find it any faster or more comfortable than a bus.

[mailabode]

Cancelled

[ankushgupta]

Amdavadi women on top in BRTS poll

AHMEDABAD: Guess who’s set to drive the Bus Rapid Transit System (BRTS) once it rolls into the city? It’s the Amdavadi women, who are ready to hop onto this clean-green mode of transport.

An elaborate household survey conducted in March this year to determine the willingness of commuters to shift to BRTS revealed that a whopping 43.19 per cent of women surveyed, cutting across all economic strata, said they would love to take the BRTS. In contrast, 31.9 per cent men said they would prefer the BRTS.

The study was conducted by a Netherlands-based group, International Institute for Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation (IIGISEO), in a one-kilometre radius around the first and second phases of the BRTS route.
And, what’s drawing the women to BRTS? One of the reasons, says the study, is that in the normal travel pattern — the head of the family generally uses cars while the women are left to depend on autorickshaws or asking
a family member or friend for a lift.

"I hate driving in the evenings as the streets get crowded and there is no parking space. I have to wait for my son often to drive me down to the market or to my boutique which is a kilometre away. The BRTS will provide me with an alternative to the rickety auto-rickshaws and a grumbling son. Moreover, it will be a pollution-free ride and also save time," says Vineeta Chundavat, a city-based designer who stays near Jodhpur crossroads.

The study also considered factors like occupation and other modes of transport.

Of the total 1,100 responses, 34 per cent were willing to board the BRTS. A large number of students (38 per cent) and officer-goers (33.2 per cent) were gung-ho about the BRTS.

The study included areas marked as nodal points — Memnagar and Vasna in the western part, Raipur in the Walled City area, while Isanpur, Naroda and Odhav were chosen in the east zone. The study covered 196 traffic zones in the city.

[kronik]

Here's hoping the Amdavad BRTS will begin smoothly after the Delhi Fiasco.

[ramkan]

Change is hard in public places in India. Either it is traffic discipline, helmets, lane driving, speed limits...........you name it....

Hopefully they will learn from Delhi fiasco and get it right from Day One..

[saurabh85]

With the kind of lane discipline we have in india sometimes i feel we should have concrete barriers between lanes..

[qwertyasd]

When is the Ahmedabad system going to start? It would be good if they learn the lessons from the Delhi BRTS.

[ubermeow]

Originally Posted by saurabh85

With the kind of lane discipline we have in india sometimes i feel we should have concrete barriers between lanes..

Concrete barriers were exactly the cause of accidents in Delhi BRTS case over the last 2 years.

[bhopalus]

dang, this project is taking a really really long time. no updates on any of the websites. I know the deadline is 2009, BUT there aren't even any UC pictures anywhere on the internet.

http://ahmedabadbrts.org/

http://deshgujarat.com/2007/02/16/ah...it-systemvideo

http://www.epconnet.com/projects/project1/project1.html

see? no updates