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Old June 23rd, 2006, 12:33 PM   #61
AltinD
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Can you name or locate for me those empty scrapers?
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 01:18 PM   #62
WhiteMagick
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Occupancy rates both residential and hotel, are a tricky business. Especially in dubai.

I have seen quotations for 79.1%-85.1% for hotels and peaking.
Occupancy rates for residential buildings stand at around 90% and falling because of rising rents and mostly minimal pay slave workers living in the city who can't afford them.

The 7.9% inflation in dubai does not allow any stability for those rates until it drops to around 2-3%. Of course there are many more buildings being built and you never now how demand will respond to the supply with the rising inflation.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 02:17 PM   #63
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I also agree that Dubai is just a ticking time bomb. PR will only get it so far. If it fails to deliver, the bubble will burst. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my visits to Dubai as I have family there but it really isn't the utopia that many Dubai forumers make it out to be. Lets hope that Dubai delivers as I am amazed at many of the projects under construction. The thing that bugs me most is the lack of public transport and the laughable adoption of infrastructure in the city. The proposed metro needs to be completed and integrated asap.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 03:35 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick
What criticism of Dubai is right then? So far i haven't seen any tolerance of Dubai criticism yet you accept that some ic correct. What might that be? hm? What criticism of Dubai is correct?
labout issue if not exaggerated, Traffic, environment (that is just a point where i am not totally convinced, even though projects like Palm Jum turned out to help encourage marina life), Palm Deira, Quality of some projects, Developers...

i accept all criticism as long as it is not based on bullshit, it is just that easy.

problem is most of the criticism here is wrong, based on wrong information, opinions, biased, etc.

anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eddied
Considering how many of Dubai's scrapers are empty, it all just seems like a big bubble to me. So many people buying them are investors, but who are they going to sell them to make their supposed profit. Other investors? Bubble bubble bubble.

Wait for the pop.
would u point out the towers to me, and would u tell me where a 15% rent increase cap had to be implented so that people can afford to rent houses or apartments, if all the towers are empty anyway?

not talking about hotels which have the highest occupancy rate in the world !!!
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 04:25 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMagick
Occupancy rates both residential and hotel, are a tricky business. Especially in dubai.

I have seen quotations for 79.1%-85.1% for hotels and peaking.
Occupancy rates for residential buildings stand at around 90% and falling because of rising rents and mostly minimal pay slave workers living in the city who can't afford them.

The 7.9% inflation in dubai does not allow any stability for those rates until it drops to around 2-3%. Of course there are many more buildings being built and you never now how demand will respond to the supply with the rising inflation.
Another "expert" ...
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 04:28 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pookgai
... the laughable adoption of infrastructure in the city...
Can you elaborate more on that please.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 05:58 PM   #67
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I don't really like the proposed layout either. As good as it does look in areas, I'd more partial to the old fashioned grid. It's more pedestrial friendly. I don't know what's in the pipeline as far as a metro is concerned, but Dubai should go nuts with that IMO, I want to see a subway that's just ridiculous(in a good way).
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 06:18 PM   #68
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The problem is that the WEATHER is not "pedestrian friendly".
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 08:13 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AltinD
Another "expert" ...
Can I say something without you having to bash me? lol

I pointed out the high occupancy rates IN DEFENSE OF DUBAI to comments of low occupancy and you still bash me.
I point out official inflation figures and you still bash me.
I point out that the effects of inflation on real estate can be unpredictable and you still bash me.

Are you on a reflex reaction mode so whenever i post you have to bash me? lol

Should i start whoshipping the city like a g-d pointing out that it has absolutely no flaws? And i suggest if you cannot participate to the discussion constructively do not take part at all.

Thanks mate
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Old June 28th, 2006, 06:07 AM   #70
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An article from today - ASSOCIATED PRESS

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060627/dubai..._lh1.html?.v=1

Dubai Sprouts a Forest of Building Cranes

Tuesday June 27, 1:19 pm ET
By Jim Krane, Associated Press Writer

Dubai, Among the Fastest-Growing Cities, Sprouts a Forest of Building Cranes but Still Needs More

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) -- New York has the Statue of Liberty. Paris has the Eiffel Tower. Dubai's symbol, for now, is the construction crane. This Persian Gulf boomtown is more accurately described as an enormous construction site, rather than a finished city.

Cranes cram the skyline and line the highways, marring the view from almost any window. Their latticed booms wheel over hundreds of half-finished skyscrapers, hauling up gray slabs of prefabricated wall, buckets of wet concrete and bundles of steel reinforcing rod that resembles rust-colored spaghetti.

Building analysts say Dubai has emerged as the world's fastest growing city, as well as its largest repository of building cranes.

"Dubai is the biggest market for tower cranes," said Klaus Binder, who heads tower crane production for the German manufacturer Liebherr. "No other city in the world has such a number. Maybe Shanghai did three or five years ago. There are growing markets in Russia, but they not as big as Dubai's."

The frantic growth is the fruit of oil-rich investors plowing record profits into luxury real estate in this liberal and cosmopolitan city. Dubai now groans under some $200 billion in projects that are either under way or slated to begin shortly, said Colin Foreman, a Gulf construction expert with Middle East Economic Digest.

No one here seems to know how many building cranes have been aiding the city's sprawl across miles of sweltering desert dunes. But inevitably, when one of Dubai's newspapers or pundits seeks to describe the scale of the city's building boom, a crane statistic is mentioned.

Earlier this month, Dubai's Gulf News daily claimed the city harbors 24 percent of the world's construction cranes -- or 30,000 of 125,000 cranes worldwide. Less ambitious estimates range from 6 percent to 10 percent.

Binder believes there are between 1,100 and 1,200 tower cranes in the Emirates, mainly in Dubai, which is roughly 5 to 10 percent of the world's active tower cranes -- one of three varieties used in construction. Dubai harbors many thousands more mobile cranes and crawler cranes -- those on wheels or tracks.

Despite the crane-scarred skyline, Dubai needs more -- far more -- to complete its projects. Problem is, manufacturers can't make cranes fast enough and the second-hand market has been largely cleaned out, those in the industry say.

Rental companies here are booked solid. Gallagher International, which rents 53 mobile cranes to developers here, had leased its entire fleet last week.

"You have to say no to your customers. You cannot find cranes anywhere," said Arty Wartanian, Gallagher's general manager. "People are going to China to buy them because sources in Europe have dried up."

A recent article in Construction Week magazine said crane prices have jumped 30 percent this year, while the two major European manufacturers -- Liebherr and Potain -- were so backlogged that Italian and Chinese cranes were taking a growing share of the Gulf market.

A new Liebherr tower crane costs $100,000 to $1.9 million depending on the size.

It's not just cranes in short supply. The simultaneous building booms in the Emirates capital Abu Dhabi, and in nearby Qatar and Bahrain have swept the market of bulldozers, excavators, pile drivers and other machinery. Prices of raw materials like concrete, glass, steel and aluminum are soaring, as is demand for laborers and engineers.

All this is driving up building prices. "It's a classic supply and demand problem," Foreman said.

The 2006 Gulf Construction Yearbook estimates that US$4 billion (euro3.2 billion) is spent each week on projects in the six Gulf Arab countries.

"I guess it's going to be like this for the next five years," Wartanian said.
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Old June 28th, 2006, 07:44 AM   #71
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does anyone notice that western writers refer to the gulf as the Persian gulf while the region here refers to it as the Arabian gulf?
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Old June 28th, 2006, 08:01 AM   #72
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thats because its the persian golf.

only arabs call it the arabian golf
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Old June 28th, 2006, 09:14 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malek
thats because its the persian golf.

only arabs call it the arabian golf
Well, it's the Persian "Gulf" to be precise: the Persian "Golf" involves playing eighteen holes somewhere in Iran.
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Old June 28th, 2006, 06:23 PM   #74
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Arabian Gulf and Persion Golf, if u ask me
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Old June 28th, 2006, 09:56 PM   #75
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Quote:

would u point out the towers to me, and would u tell me where a 15% rent increase cap had to be implented so that people can afford to rent houses or apartments, if all the towers are empty anyway?

not talking about hotels which have the highest occupancy rate in the world !!!
Rent levels and availability just aren't linked in that way. A lack of affordable homes has nothing to do with how many apartments are empty. If someone buys a flat as an investment, they tend to be a bit funny about squatters. London has the same phenomenon with thousands of empty houses, but insufficient 'supply' to meet demand, and therefore sky-high prices.

Also, I'd be interested to know how many of the occupied flats in the 'occupancy rates' discussed above are actually 'occupied'. Seriously, every weekend, the property supplements in the Sunday papers here in the UK are filled with adverts for Dubai flats and developments - none of them suggesting it as a place to live, but as an 'investment'. But if everyone is in investing, and the only people to cash in your investment to are other investors....
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Old June 29th, 2006, 04:09 AM   #76
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I wonder if the crane dosage info from the organisers of the Conmex is just a "guestimate" figure,
I also wonder if the Dubai & UAE booms on high-rise/landmark development are bubbles when even their populations were not able to support it.
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Old June 29th, 2006, 04:19 AM   #77
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I think 24% of the world's cranes put together would be bigger than Dubai
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Old June 29th, 2006, 04:57 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamadoor
I think 24% of the world's cranes put together would be bigger than Dubai
I think you may be right
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Old June 29th, 2006, 09:42 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason poon
I also wonder if the Dubai & UAE booms on high-rise/landmark development are bubbles when even their populations were not able to support it.



don't get this?

Dubai's population is 80% + foreigners.

can u explain
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Old June 30th, 2006, 05:55 PM   #80
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ugh ..

This thread is useless!
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