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Old February 5th, 2005, 08:15 PM   #261
Elmo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'mBack

1. Berlin: 3554 km
2. Wien: 1820 km
3. Frankfurt: 1683 km
4. Paris: 1632 km
5. London: 1251 km
6. Prage: 826 km
7. Zurich: 729 km
8. Barcelona: 668,5 km
9. Milan 621.2
10. Madrid: 546 km
Hahahaha. Sure. Berlin 3554 km and London only 1251 km...
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Old February 5th, 2005, 10:10 PM   #262
nick_taylor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'mBack
^I'm following the criterias adopted by other forumers to posts my data; so there are some data relative to the city only and others to the metro area, as it has been done for the other european cities.....
Just because other forumers use flawed criteria, doesn't necessarily mean that you follow suit. You can't make a comparison between city proper of London and say the metro area of Frankfurt. London has some 600 stations within the city limits - that is 2nd to only Tokyo on the planet and another 600 stations in its metro region!!!!
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Old February 5th, 2005, 10:39 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpastiK
Good question! But I suppose that very difficult to answer:

Maybe this will can help you. I have the that information for UE:

METRO:

1. London: 408 km
2. Madrid: 226 km
3. Paris: 211,3 km
4. Berlin: 144 km
5. Valencia: 118 km
6. Stockholm: 108 km
7. Barcelona: 102 km
8. Wien: 61 km
9. Frankfurt: 58 km
10. Prage: 50 km

Out of the UE area:

NY: 398 km
Tokyo: 286,2 km
Moscow: 265 km
Chicago: 173 km
Washington: 164,5 km

COMMUTER RAIL IN UE:

1. Berlin: 3.107 km
2. Wien: 1.576 km
3. Frankfurt: 1500 km
4. Paris: 1401 km
5. London: 788 km
6. Zurich: 660 km
7. Prage: 639
8. Barcelona: 546 km
9. Madrid: 320 km
10. Manchester: 319 km

TRAMS/LRT IN UE:

1. Berlin: 303 km
2. Wien: 183 km
3. Prage: 137 km
4. Brussels: 133 km
5. Frankfurt: 125 km
6. Warszawa: 122 km
7. Helsinki: 90 km
8. Zurich: 69 km
9. London: 55 km
10. Stockholm: 27 km


So, in UE we can say that the first cities with the most "rail" transport system are:

Metro + Tram (Urban rail transport):

1. London: 463 km
2. Berlin: 447 km
3. Wien: 244 km
4. Paris: 231,3 km
5. Madrid: 226 km (no tram)
6. Prage: 187 km
7. Frankfurt: 183 km
8. Brussels: 168 km
9. Stockholm: 135 km
10. Valencia: 131 km


Rail Tranport: Urban and Suburban:

1. Berlin: 3554 km
2. Wien: 1820 km
3. Frankfurt: 1683 km
4. Paris: 1632 km
5. London: 1251 km
6. Prage: 826 km
7. Zurich: 729 km
8. Barcelona: 668,5 km
9. Madrid: 546 km
10. Manchester: 357 km


Well, maybe the km are quite wrong (some km up or down), but this is the list that I have.

I would like to have a very good list with all the networks in the world too (LRT, MRT and Commuter Rail).


Regards!
how about another inconsistancy?

The lists show Zurich (in Switzerland) as a European Union city yet the Swiss are not part of the EU, having voted (twice I think) to stay out.

And yes its a shame that Melbourne's trams were left out - but so was its suburban railway system, and Sydney too - although especially with Sydney the trains operate a regional railway system which extends far beyond the city boundary into rural New South Wales. As far as I can remember from my last visit there is no clear demarcation between urban / inner-city / suburban / regional / outer-suburban, etc.

Simon

Last edited by spsmiler; February 5th, 2005 at 10:51 PM.
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Old February 6th, 2005, 12:33 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spsmiler
how about another inconsistancy?

The lists show Zurich (in Switzerland) as a European Union city yet the Swiss are not part of the EU, having voted (twice I think) to stay out.

And yes its a shame that Melbourne's trams were left out - but so was its suburban railway system, and Sydney too - although especially with Sydney the trains operate a regional railway system which extends far beyond the city boundary into rural New South Wales. As far as I can remember from my last visit there is no clear demarcation between urban / inner-city / suburban / regional / outer-suburban, etc.

Simon
As mentioned earlier in the thead, the list certainly misses an enormous amount of data from other important cities. It aslo makes solid errors in using city proper statistics (such as London's commuter rail) against metropolitan statistics or other cities and State statistics such as Berlin (including all of Brandenburg).

In any discussion of international tram networks, Melbourne certainly must be included as it is in the top 10.

However, although it is important to include Melbourne and Sydney as far as commuter rail is concerned, they are not large enough to be notable in any way.

Not knocking them, they still are wonderful systems.
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Old February 6th, 2005, 07:19 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'mBack
[IMG]http://************/1jp00g[/IMG]
I'mBack: Do you know of any line map similar to the one you posted for the Tram system of Milano? I have looked all over for one. Anyone else?
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Old February 6th, 2005, 12:50 PM   #266
GENIUS LOCI
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^
I answer to you...
I don't know any map similar to the one posted by I'mBack for Milan tramway system
Official maps of Atm (the public transportation company of milan municipality) generally show tramlines in its most detailed map; shown together with buses lines and obviously metro lines in the same drawing over the grid of Milan's road map
Also in this map (the most detailed) there are not graphical differences between the tramlines (difference of coulor or shape) they are all designed as one indistinct web; and even stops are not in the drawing: people assume tram does a stop every about 300 m
The probem is the estension of the network: 27 lines, sometimes with a very long run and 40 or 50 stops. Last: the network has a great "flexibility"; they can decide, if necessary, to variate the stretch and the number of lines simply running on no more used city tram tracks, or re-thinking at the lines stretch using in differnt way the connection tracks or using other ones now dismissed
Sometimes, when they work on a line for maintanence or other, they use these systems to deviate the line

Then, if there is a map of Milan tram network similar to Rome one is not from official source, but, eventually, be drawn by a "tram-fan"
However, I think it doesn't exist at all...
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Old February 6th, 2005, 05:28 PM   #267
I'mBack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmo
Hahahaha. Sure. Berlin 3554 km and London only 1251 km...
The list isn't mine (Hahahaha!!): I have just added some Italian cities to the list, but I didn't dare to modify the other cities' data (Hahahaha!!).

PS: have you bothered reading all the other posts? (same apply for nick-taylor)

If you believe London's data are not correct, then post your data!! (just to clarify again, the list I posted, it's not mine, I have just added some italian cities.... )
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Old February 6th, 2005, 07:10 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSPtoMKE
I'mBack: Do you know of any line map similar to the one you posted for the Tram system of Milano? I have looked all over for one. Anyone else?
At the moment I have found only this one, which is not really "clear":

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Old February 7th, 2005, 12:38 AM   #269
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Does anyone have a map of London's underground network with the map being to scale, with stations' distances actually having the same scale to each other?
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Old February 7th, 2005, 03:21 AM   #270
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samsonyuen: I forgot where i found this map of the London Underground that is geographically accurate (maybe this very thread!) so i uploaded it, it is very big so here is a link:

http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Lo...Geographic.gif


GENIUS LOCI & I'mBack: Thanks for your replies. I was pretty sure that no official map exists of Milano Tram Lines, but i thought there might be something out there is cyberspace. I have a paper copy of the full ATM Public Transport Map from my visit last year, but it is a few years out of date and a different edition than those that were posted at Metro Stations (no Metrotranvia, etc). I actually have found a site that has a series of maps like this:

Milano Tram Network, 2004


So that will have to do


Here is the full Site
http://digilander.libero.it/CentralStation/index.html
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Old February 7th, 2005, 02:50 PM   #271
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MSPtoMKE, thanks for your map and links! (even for the London one: I knew it already this map, but it's nice to see it again! Obviously the "standard" Underground Map of London is more familiar and easier to use, but this one gives you a better idea of the real distances of some stations - ie: Bayswater and Queensway are actually very close to each other, maybe 300m apart on the same street! But on the "standard" map they seem to be quite far.... )
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Old February 8th, 2005, 05:18 AM   #272
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minneapolis light rail. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/city...line-image.gif the train http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/pics/3198.jpg http://www.blickpunktstrab.net/curre...incinnati2.jpg http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
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Old February 8th, 2005, 07:30 AM   #273
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Amsterdam has an impressive tram network (25 Lines).


Last edited by Luckystrike; February 8th, 2005 at 07:54 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2005, 07:46 AM   #274
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Old February 8th, 2005, 07:56 AM   #275
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I think Oslo has an impressive network for the size of the city.

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Old February 8th, 2005, 11:46 AM   #276
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Brisbane, Australia:

Citytrain and Ferry Map
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Old February 10th, 2005, 01:21 AM   #277
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Thanks MSPtoMKE. Living in London, it's so hard to judge distances, and best routes because the maps are so out of scale! I will print it out and keep it in my wallet
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Old March 5th, 2005, 05:45 AM   #278
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Bruxelles rail network
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Old March 6th, 2005, 01:38 AM   #279
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Okay seriously what's with all the people posting maps of TRAMS in the same thread as people posting maps of METRO or Subway.

There is a vast difference. Metro - fast, quick. Tram - glorified bus on one track.


You take that picture of Oslo and it might seem like a really detailed subway system until you realize it's just trams.

Hell I can do the same for St. Petersburg. The city has more trams than any other city on earth, you know.


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Old March 7th, 2005, 04:14 AM   #280
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Philadelphia, PA
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