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Old June 9th, 2015, 02:32 AM   #1601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnorian View Post
Jug Cerović's new maps:

Revamped NYC Subway map:
Much prefer Massimo Vignelli's map. Athough it was rejected by New Yorkers for being geographically unfaithfull, it had a unique graphic style.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 04:32 AM   #1602
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@Arnorian

Thanks for sharing my maps, London is coming next

@Sameboat

I wanted to congratulate you on the quality of your work and on the dedication you have demonstarted by posting your maps on Wikimedia.

I was actually working on an redesign of my own London Underground map when the new TfL one was published. Your work and the whole discussion about it have helped me a lot in the process.

Anyway here it is:





Some particular features integrated in the map:

1. The center, inside the circle line loop is more or less geographically accurate

2. There is a frequency based hierarchy for the lines (underground, DLR/ Overground etc..)

3. Separated DLR routes

4. Airport rail links

5. Out of system transfers, pictured as a walk through known or unknown streets

6. Crossrail integration


Illustrations:

http://www.inat.fr/metro/london/
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Old June 9th, 2015, 11:01 AM   #1603
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One thing bothers me is the National Rail logo below Southwark. It feels like misplaced Waterloo East NR station.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #1604
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Great map - a step change in improvement over your first IMO - lines are straighter (especially NW London) and easier to follow. Perhaps I've just grown used to your impositions on all your maps, though I like that you have added a bit of flexibility wrt placement of titles, that allows the geography of the network to dictate which corner of the map it goes, rather than the placement of the title top left dictating the geography of the map.

A few minor negative points:
1) Airport stations. I know you include them on all maps, but it looks as if Luton, Gatwick and Stansted are in zone 1 as they don't have a zone. Shenfield and Watford have 'special fares', but the airport aren't even Oyster. Perhaps have: 'no Oyster' there?. The HEx tunnel into Heathrow needs that text as well.
2) Similarly, zone 1 stations need to be explicitly zone 1 - it's confusing otherwise.
3) District running High St Ken to Gloucester Road? That's Circle only.
4) Bethnal Green. I can see what you've done there, but it just looks weird. Sod geography!
5) 'Highams park'
6) No Acton Main Line? Do Heathrow Connect trains not stop there?

I like the DLR and Overground minor changes in colour for different routes. And the split of the DLR into service groups.

I also like how the Croxley link would be very easy to properly add, and future Crossrail provision is the most obvious I've seen (obviously Sameboat includes it).

Excellent work that simply needs a bit of proof reading.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 08:23 PM   #1605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sameboat View Post
One thing bothers me is the National Rail logo below Southwark. It feels like misplaced Waterloo East NR station.
Seems that it was a leftover from the previous version, deleted


@sotonosi

Thanks a lot for the kind words and the proof reading

I like that you have added a bit of flexibility wrt placement of titles, that allows the geography of the network to dictate which corner of the map it goes, rather than the placement of the title top left dictating the geography of the map.

I had a hard time with NYC map and decided it was no longer necessary to have the exact same layout on every map. The same goes with the square layout becoming rectangular for London, there was simply not enough room in the square. I might do the same for NYC too (vertical rectangle)

1) Airport stations. I know you include them on all maps, but it looks as if Luton, Gatwick and Stansted are in zone 1 as they don't have a zone. Shenfield and Watford have 'special fares', but the airport aren't even Oyster. Perhaps have: 'no Oyster' there?. The HEx tunnel into Heathrow needs that text as well.

Agreed, I added "special fare, no Oyster" to the airports


2) Similarly, zone 1 stations need to be explicitly zone 1 - it's confusing otherwise.

Not sure about this one, it would clutter the map in the center. Now that airports have fare info, the map is consistent: if no zone number then it's zone 1. Works fine in Paris and Berlin.

3) District running High St Ken to Gloucester Road? That's Circle only.


My bad, corrected

4) Bethnal Green. I can see what you've done there, but it just looks weird. Sod geography!

You're right, it looked really weird. I revamped the area and I like it much better. Now District and Hammersmith merge symmetricaly at Aldgate.


5) 'Highams park'


Done. Damn typos.

6) No Acton Main Line? Do Heathrow Connect trains not stop there?

According to the Heathrow Connect website only one the last evening train calls at Acton Main line. So no Acton Main Line


I uploaded the updated map, click ctrl-F5 on PC to refresh the page
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Old June 9th, 2015, 09:16 PM   #1606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zidar fr View Post
2) Similarly, zone 1 stations need to be explicitly zone 1 - it's confusing otherwise.

Not sure about this one, it would clutter the map in the center. Now that airports have fare info, the map is consistent: if no zone number then it's zone 1. Works fine in Paris and Berlin.
Fair enough.
Quote:
4) Bethnal Green. I can see what you've done there, but it just looks weird. Sod geography!

You're right, it looked really weird. I revamped the area and I like it much better. Now District and Hammersmith merge symmetricaly at Aldgate.
Much, much better, and still geographically reasonable.

More notes:

Emirates Airline isn't zone 3 - it's a special fare (though Oyster can be used to pay it).

Stansted Express is just Liverpool Street-Tottenham Hale-various non-London stations-Stansted. There's no direct Stansted service from Stratford (the stoppers and semi-fast end at Bishops Stortford).

I'm don't think there's any off-peak Stratford-Lewisham services, and the off-peak-only towards Lewisham stop at West India Quay on Bank-Lewisham ones might be no more, meaning that West India Quay has no service from Westferry. However DLR information has got worse in recent months, so I don't know for sure.
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Old June 9th, 2015, 10:24 PM   #1607
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Emirates Airline isn't zone 3 - it's a special fare (though Oyster can be used to pay it).

I didn't see the dagger on the TfL map, corrected.


Stansted Express is just Liverpool Street-Tottenham Hale-various non-London stations-Stansted. There's no direct Stansted service from Stratford (the stoppers and semi-fast end at Bishops Stortford).


There are connecting trains from Stratford to Stansted with a transfer at Tottenham Hale, they are advertised as such by Stansted Express. I had already pictured the transfer but I also added the written information on the map.

I'm don't think there's any off-peak Stratford-Lewisham services, and the off-peak-only towards Lewisham stop at West India Quay on Bank-Lewisham ones might be no more, meaning that West India Quay has no service from Westferry. However DLR information has got worse in recent months, so I don't know for sure.

Converted Canary Wharf to Lewisham to peak hours only and an arrow pointing north at West India Quays.


I don't like writing much on the map, it looses its universal legibility, but nevertheless in the above cases I prefer an annotation on the map itself than somewhere around.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 05:22 AM   #1608
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What a brilliant map zidar fr! For the first time I'm able to make sense of the District Line, DLR and Overground services; superb job!
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Old June 10th, 2015, 06:20 AM   #1609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScuderiaVincero View Post
What a brilliant map zidar fr! For the first time I'm able to make sense of the District Line, DLR and Overground services; superb job!
Maybe I am bursting the bubble, but just so you know that according to the official timetable of District line, trains start from Kensington (Olympia) do not always terminate at High Street Kensington. One train on Sundays even goes as far as to Tower Hill without heading towards High Street Kensington/Edgware Road. So I would rather remain silent about its service pattern in my map. Still I acknowledge the effort you put into DLR's service pattern.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 12:40 PM   #1610
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@Scuderia Vincero

Thanks a lot
I consider showing the different routes on the map is essential, else you know that rail tracks exist on a certain station but you don't know where the trains can take you to.

District has several service patterns so I am showing them all at Earl' Court. The official map is silent about the fact that you have to change trains in order to go from Richmond to Paddington.


@Sameboat

Only several early morning and evening trains are exceptions, all the rest of them go from Olympia to High Street Kensington. That is a relevant information for planning your trip and I think it is useful to have it pictured as such on the map.

It's always quite difficult to choose which peculiarities to show on the map and which to skip for the sake of legibility.
For example, whether to show station skipping fast services, such as some peak services on on Metropolitan line. In Paris there are so many different service patterns on the RER that you simply have to ignore them. On the contrary in New york fast services and peak hours trains are few and are easily depicted. The same goes for most Seoul fast services.

In London I chose not to show the Metropolitan peak hours services, just as on the Paris RER, because it would require a very complex rendering:

- semi-fast trains from Finchley Road to Harrow on the Hill for all 3 northern branches
- fast trains from Harrow on the Hill to Moor Park for Amersham and Chesham branches only
- All stop trains for Uxbridge branch

It would unnecessarily clutter the map without providing an essential information to most users.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 03:29 PM   #1611
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Quote:
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- semi-fast trains from Finchley Road to Harrow on the Hill for all 3 northern branches
Which may, or may not, stop at Wembley Park
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Old June 11th, 2015, 09:10 PM   #1612
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This map beats all the London ones for clarity and style.
Produced by TfL in 2004, it envisaged what the network would look like 12 years later in 2016.

Note Crossrail - one splendidly straight line all the way from Ealing Broadway to Whitechapel, exquisite!

In fact, Crossrail looks like its been in operation for at least 50 years - a testament to how well its been visually integrated with the rest of the network.

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Old June 12th, 2015, 05:23 PM   #1613
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The TfL map looks so much better without the white/grey zone fields and PRM accessibility on stations.

Interesting thing that in 2004 the DLR/Crossrail connection at Canary Wharf wasn't pictured.
Also the south-east overground line is assumed to become a full high frequency tube line.
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Old June 12th, 2015, 07:09 PM   #1614
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Indeed, it is a work of unrivaled beauty that retains its London identity and character, minus the clutter.

Its 'Londonness' is expressed by the barbells, the fairly tight line bends (not too sweeping) and the typography.
The icing on the cake is Crossrail which looks like it may have been in existence since the Victorian era (the first line to be put on paper around which others are arranged on the map).

However, it does need tweaking.

• The west branch of the Northern line should be olive colour (back in 2004 there were no plans to debranch the Northern) and extended to Battersea

• The Crossrail line should be given a primary colour, rather than a purplish type non-descript hue

• Liverpool Street to Moorgate barbells should all be 45% angle only

• Picadilly line should be navy blue, not Chelsea blue

• Zones could be identified after each station name thus: Swiss Cottage (2)
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Old June 12th, 2015, 08:36 PM   #1615
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• The west branch of the Northern line should be olive colour (back in 2004 there were no plans to debranch the Northern) and extended to Battersea
1) Why olive?
2) Why the west branch changing colour? Certainly from the map perspective, the strong black N-S vertical and the strong E-W horizontal route in red, or in this map, purple, ties it all together with TCR as the Centre Point (the tower at the station gets its name from this principle of the map!).
3) In 2004 there was the same desire to 'debranch' (you mean split) the Northern line and those plans have moved little further since (one redesign of Camden Town upgrade plan needed to split the line. Still a big no, but a slightly less hostile one). It still remains a total pipedream.
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• The Crossrail line should be given a primary colour, rather than a purplish type non-descript hue
Err have to create a new roundel then

It was about the only colour left...
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Old June 13th, 2015, 01:13 AM   #1616
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I think we digress again...

Crossrail began construction in 2009. Also the Canary Wharf to Woolwich branch of Crossrail wasn't proposed before 2005, so a 2004 prospective map wouldn't have expected this branch.
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Old June 13th, 2015, 01:50 PM   #1617
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1) Why olive?
It remains one of the few line colours remaining that is easily distungishable from others. Perhaps there's still room for a Chelsea blue that might differ enough optically from either the Victoria or Picadilly blue, not sure.

Quote:
2) Why the west branch changing colour? Certainly from the map perspective, the strong black N-S vertical and the strong E-W horizontal route in red, or in this map, purple, ties it all together with TCR as the Centre Point (the tower at the station gets its name from this principle of the map!).
TfL have renewed plans to debranch the Northern line. The catalyst for such change has been the proposed extension to Battersea and with this short extension a complete separation of the Northern Line suddenly makes even more sense than before.
The debranching of the line can now be reviewed for it is needed to maximise the success of the Battersea extension itself. It may open the door on Government suport and so can't be dismissed as quixotic, the way you claim it is.

Anyway, going back to TfL's 2004 map. I appreciate Sameboat's and Jug's efforts and they're impressive pieces of work.
However, I think the public would prefer a map that says 'London' and could be instantly recognised as such but without the clutter.
CR1 is expected to carry over at least twice as many passengers as any of the other lines and so deserves pride of place on the map as a long straight line piercing central London right down the middle, rather than weaving its way in and out like a lost snake.
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Old June 15th, 2015, 01:44 PM   #1618
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http://www.geocities.jp/ifurkend/Lon...il_map_alt.svg

I am testing to add Thameslink into my map without drastically alter the existing layout (in the ideal world this is really not ideal). Including Thameslink also unavoidably causes some station labels to overlap Thameslink's stripe.
I know the current work at London Bridge severed the direct link towards Blackfriars but it will be back to business in 2018 after all.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 04:22 PM   #1619
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https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/im...httube-map.jpg

Regarding the new Night Tube map, few issues I wanna point out:
* Font size of station labels is too small compared to the title "Night Tube". It fits my definition of "text for ants" when the map is zoomed out to fit full-screen height unless your monitor is 40" or bigger.
* No point of including the closed "Tufnell Park" (due to reinstalling of lift) when other daytime-only stations are excluded from the map.
* No explanation of why "Loughton" isn't given the terminus icon but an intermediate station icon. It's indeed intermediate station during daytime but the usage in Night Tube map is inconsistent and therefore confusing.
* Lines are left untouched as daytime layout. Unless the Night Tube map is meant to superimpose on the daytime map (which is apparently unnecessary), it's better to straighten all of them for clarity's sake.
* Fare zones are even more irrelevant on Night Tube map because travelers have fewer options during nighttime. Not to mention that all those kinks of the zone borders are totally distracting.
* Key to white daggers are no way to be found in this particular map which has plenty of space for that.
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Last edited by Sameboat; June 24th, 2015 at 10:31 AM.
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Old June 22nd, 2015, 06:39 PM   #1620
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You forgot that the colour scheme for the background hides half the lines...

That is an awful map!
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