daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture

Architecture news and discussions on all buildings types and urban spaces
» Classic Architecture | European Classic Architecture and Landscapes | Public Space | Shopping Architecture | Design & Lifestyle | Urban Renewal and Redevelopment



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 11th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #161
taboe
taboe
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: antwerp
Posts: 1,895
Likes (Received): 380

Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar View Post
Are you then saying the Taj Mahal is not a wonder?...
It's amazing, but no more of a wonder than dozens of other monuments. There are equally impressive muslim monuments, but they didn't make it because they're in unpopukar nations (Iran, Pakistan, etc...)

Quote:
The ESB is a wonder, but wasn't deemed good enough to make it into the final list.
Joke? If ESB is a wonder, than every single country in the world has one or more 'wonders'. (I'm not saying I don't like ESB, btw)
taboe no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 11th, 2007, 06:59 PM   #162
taboe
taboe
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: antwerp
Posts: 1,895
Likes (Received): 380

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newcastle Guy View Post
Regardless of what I think of the list there really should be some kind of decision made by an UNBIASED panel of historians and possibly architects.
That's simply impossible... How can you compare buildings from totally different cultures and eras? The ancient 7 wonders were also chosen in a very biased way, btw...
taboe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #163
_00_deathscar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,047
Likes (Received): 217

Quote:
Originally Posted by taboe View Post
It's amazing, but no more of a wonder than dozens of other monuments. There are equally impressive muslim monuments, but they didn't make it because they're in unpopukar nations (Iran, Pakistan, etc...)
But they're:
a) Not as popular as the Taj Mahal
b) Not a 'symbol' for love
etc. etc.

Quote:
Joke? If ESB is a wonder, than every single country in the world has one or more 'wonders'. (I'm not saying I don't like ESB, btw)
I don't get it - what exactly are you trying to suggest? We get rid of the 7 wonders of the world altogether?
_00_deathscar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2007, 07:21 PM   #164
taboe
taboe
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: antwerp
Posts: 1,895
Likes (Received): 380

Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar View Post
But they're:
a) Not as popular as the Taj Mahal
b) Not a 'symbol' for love
etc. etc.
a)--> I'm just saying that a list like this is worthless if that's an argument..
b) That's what we made of it, actually the Grand Mogul who build this for his 'true love' had lots of wives. It was more about richness and stature than love

Quote:
I don't get it - what exactly are you trying to suggest? We get rid of the 7 wonders of the world altogether?
The ancient wonders are interesting, almost mythical and inspiring, but it's silly to see them as the 7 greatest monuments that stood on the face of the planet at that time. This new list is just idiotic, it excludes a lot of 'wonders' and turned into a (nationalist) popularity contest, sort of an 'Idols' for buildings... The only good thing about this 'election' was the longlist, which allowed people to get to know some amazing structures they might not have known. But even that list fell short. If you want a true list of 'wonders', check http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/
taboe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2007, 07:24 PM   #165
_00_deathscar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,047
Likes (Received): 217

Fair enough I suppose. You're right in that the shortlist did allow people who voted to learn more about certain other sites, whilst excluding others (but that's always going to happen in a shortlist isn't it?).
_00_deathscar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2007, 07:38 PM   #166
Matthieu
Administrateur
 
Matthieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tarbes, the capital of the world
Posts: 15,222
Likes (Received): 5619

Most of the buildings in the SSC lisft for the Seven Wonders of Europe are more impressive than some of these world's wonders.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...313933&page=10
__________________
"To erect a tall building is to proclaim one’s faith in the future, the skyline is a seismograph of optimism."
Jean Nouvel
Matthieu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2007, 08:17 PM   #167
crossbowman
^Xpande®^
 
crossbowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Athens
Posts: 883
Likes (Received): 2

Really weird results....but hey, this is the case whenever there's an open poll!
__________________
[- ANDROS -]

[- Reunification of the PARTHENON Marbles -]


Life is FULL of rude awakenings...
crossbowman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 12:04 PM   #168
Rachmaninov
Registered User
 
Rachmaninov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
Posts: 3,188
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by _00_deathscar View Post
Technically, it's the Seven Wonders of the World, not Seven "architecurally inspiring, but complex and difficult to engineer and ancient" Wonders of the World.
in what aspects that the christ statue can rival any other "wonders" other than the fact that it's ended up in the list??
__________________
Rachmaninov no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 12:07 PM   #169
Rachmaninov
Registered User
 
Rachmaninov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
Posts: 3,188
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterpaul View Post
Ive been 2 The great wall, trust me it didnt diserve it.
I've been to the great wall too, and trust me it truly deserves to be a wonder. Its unbelievable scale alone deserves such title. Imagine you had to build all that on top of steep ridges. And then it was built over 2000 years ago.
__________________
Rachmaninov no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 12:09 PM   #170
_00_deathscar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 5,047
Likes (Received): 217

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachmaninov View Post
in what aspects that the christ statue can rival any other "wonders" other than the fact that it's ended up in the list??
Location.
_00_deathscar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 12th, 2007, 12:13 PM   #171
Rachmaninov
Registered User
 
Rachmaninov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
Posts: 3,188
Likes (Received): 24

Then when anything gets built exactly on the south pole it's gonna be the eighth wonder.
__________________
Rachmaninov no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 01:39 AM   #172
tanzirian
Registered User
 
tanzirian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,695
Likes (Received): 492

As with many other people I don't agree with the list or its methodology. Nor do I agree with limiting the number to "seven"...the ancient Greeks didn't start and start looking for buildings - it was the other way around.

I support inclusion of Great Wall, Taj, and Colloseum.

Don't support inclusion of Machu Pichu, Christ Redeemer, or Petra. They are all fabulous, but owe as much or more to their natural setting than to human craftsmanship.

I am on the fence in regards to Chichen Itza...it's very nice, but what makes it a "wonder"? There are other mesoamerican sites (Tikal, Teotihuacan) which are just as good IMO.

Just my two cents.
tanzirian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #173
Matthieu
Administrateur
 
Matthieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Tarbes, the capital of the world
Posts: 15,222
Likes (Received): 5619

IMO the Great Wall definately is a wonder. The Taj Mahal is beautiful but in what way is it an engineering masterpiece?

I don't remember any major architectural evolution nor any record broken by this building. The Agra Fort in the same city is a good competitor to the title of world's wonder though; its only shame is not to be as famous as the Taj.

The Colloseum is cool but I'd rather see the Parthenon or Hagia Sofia as wonders.

Machi Pichu, Petra and the Christ Redempteer are only world's wonder because of jingoistic votes.

Chichen Itza may be cool but Gizeh Pyramid should be the wonder, like it once.

The Eiffel Tower deserved to be a world's wonder, it broke the world's tallest record and by almost twice the size and marked a major evolution in civil engineering. Nothing modern made it though, but the Three Gorge Dam would be a wonder, just think of all the villages they unbuilt and rebuilt just to leave place for the dam.
__________________
"To erect a tall building is to proclaim one’s faith in the future, the skyline is a seismograph of optimism."
Jean Nouvel
Matthieu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 08:23 PM   #174
taboe
taboe
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: antwerp
Posts: 1,895
Likes (Received): 380

I agree with most of what you say.
One remark though: you seem to focus solely on the architectural side of the term 'wonder', which is understandable as it is the most objective parametre to compare buildings. Strictly speaking however, when you follow this logic, the Great Wall should not be included in the list, since it's not an architectural innovation (it's just a big wall), but more of an engineering wonder. The thing that makes it also special is the humongous length and the location (which is far from ideal).
A true 'wonder' should be a combination of a number of qualities (architectural value, uniqueness in it's own time(this excludes Machu Picchu, which is only unique because it's the only surviving Inca settlement nowadays, but it wasn't so many years ago), engineerial value, etc), IMO.

Take the christ Redeemer for example. It would have been a wonder if it were build 1000 years ago, but since it's not that old, it took no real innovative engineering to build it, nor is it a unique statue. What remains is the incredible location, but that's far from enough to be considered a wonder.

The colloseum isn't unique, but it was the grandest and most perfect example of a certain architectural process on a prime location in the greatest city in the world (at that time), so you could call it sort of a wonder, I guess.

Taj Mahal isn't unique or wasn't an architectural innovation. It has a certain mythical state going for it, but that doesn't suffice to make it a 'wonder', I think. (For those interested, take a look at Badshahi Mosque in Lahore or Masjid-i-Sjah, in Isfahan. These are equally amazing muslim buildings from the same period.)

I'm not to sure about Petra and Chichen Itza, don't know them well enough..

Finally, in this matter, the way to go isn't making ridiculous shortlists, but examining and listing extraordinary sites, sorta the way UNESCO is doing. I also wish people didn't support sites or buildings just because they live nearby. Why should a Brazilian be proud if the Christ Redeemer is called a 'wonder'? It's not like they deserve any merit for living nearby...
taboe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #175
tanzirian
Registered User
 
tanzirian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,695
Likes (Received): 492

I don't think a building has to an engineering marvel to be a "wonder." There are no such rules. Many of the original ancient wonders were not engineering breakthroughs or unique in their architectural style. Taj is a wonder because it is a practically flawless execution of a certain style of architecture, and in many people's estimation, the most beautiful building in the world. Certainly far more impressive than Masjid-i-Shah or Badshahi Masjid in terms of perfection of proportions, relation of elements (for example, dome to iwan), and refinement of surface decoration. Those two mosques are also great works of architecture...but IMO not nearly as good as Taj.

Last edited by tanzirian; July 15th, 2007 at 10:01 PM.
tanzirian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 10:54 PM   #176
taboe
taboe
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: antwerp
Posts: 1,895
Likes (Received): 380

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanzirian View Post
I don't think a building has to an engineering marvel to be a "wonder." There are no such rules. Many of the original ancient wonders were not engineering breakthroughs or unique in their architectural style.Taj is a wonder because it is a practically flawless execution of a certain style of architecture
Obviously there are no rules, but what remains if you only use 'beauty' or proportion as a standard? Taj is not the first, nor the biggest example (Jama Mashid) of moghul architecture.

Quote:
and in many people's estimation, the most beautiful building in the world.
I wouldn't know about that, but is that really a reason to call it a wonder? A lot of people may think the ESB is the most beautiful building in the world, does that make it a wonder?

Quote:
Certainly far more impressive than Masjid-i-Shah or Badshahi Masjid in terms of perfection of proportions, relation of elements (for example, dome to iwan), and refinement of surface decoration.
You have clearly never been there...

Quote:
Those two mosques are also great works of architecture...but IMO not nearly as good as Taj.
hmmm... that's just your opinion.
Can't you see the difference between, say, Angkor Vat (a real wonder IMO), and the Taj Mahal?
taboe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #177
tanzirian
Registered User
 
tanzirian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,695
Likes (Received): 492

All you've done is stated your own opinion, which is fine...after all, "wonder" is in the eye of the beholder, as much as "beauty". I am quite familiar with all the buildings you mention...and I think they are all great...but my judgment was made with that knowledge, and I stand by it. There is not a right or wrong answer in any of this. Oh, and I do think Ankgor should be on a list of seven new wonders...but I can't really compare it to the Taj, which is a very different building. My other choices would include St. Peter's and Versailles. Again, just my two cents, not trying to create controversy here...
tanzirian no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu