KL-Singapore fast rail link

[JediAlf]

Originally Posted by blizzardtweaker

yes.....no..... yea.... nope.... maybe... dun think so.... no...
at this rate the 2 fickle govts will probably never complete the rail link in the '5 yrs' claimed, my estimates r probably at least 20yrs, by then the world would have been linked by high-speed rail, n it would be really pai seh for SG-msia not to have, so the govts would have no choice but to build...

Malaysia officers and media confuse themselves. Singapore officers still stand still - no official proposals have been reached Singapore side.

KL - Johor service - can be easily done without any issue. KL-Singapore involves Govt-to-Govt issues.

New high speed train link requires new rail tracks that are different from current KTM rails (1000mm) which are very narrow, and cannot sustain high speed train services. Standard rail guage (1435mm) is very common on high speed services that can clock at 300km/h in Europe and Japan. 300km/h is normal cruising speed for high speed trains like Eurostar, Thalys, TGV, AVE, Shinkansen trains etc.. So it will be a major issue if they want to buy land in Singapore to build a new line. Malaysia would grab opportunity that it owns the land in Singapore politically.

[Andrew]

Why not rip up the existing KTM rails and replace them with new high-speed track, that way there would be minimal new land and infrastructure needed. Even better use transrapid maglev and the journey time could be stupidly fast!!

[RafflesCity]

"stupidly fast"

[Maverick713]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Why not rip up the existing KTM rails and replace them with new high-speed track, that way there would be minimal new land and infrastructure needed. Even better use transrapid maglev and the journey time could be stupidly fast!!

The Maglev uses only elevated tracks? If yes I suppose they can build it parallel to or above the existing KTM tracks to serve both long-trip and shorter-trip commuters without using too much extra land.

[Pengui]

Originally Posted by Maverick713

The Maglev uses only elevated tracks? If yes I suppose they can build it parallel to or above the existing KTM tracks to serve both long-trip and shorter-trip commuters without using too much extra land.

I don't see any reason why Maglev would need elevated tracks... Nice idea anyway ^ ^

[Charging Bull]

Private Sector to Develop KL-Singapore Bullet Train

KUALA LUMPUR, March 29 Asia Pulse - The bullet train linking Kuala Lumpur and Singapore is likely to be developed and financed by the private sector, said Deputy Prime Minister Najib Razak.

He said the YTL Group which had proposed the project had to carry out the feasibility study and submit the findings to the government for consideration.

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He said the Transport Ministry and YTL Group were asked by the Cabinet last week to discuss the proposal which included its feasibility and the capability of the company to finance it.

"This is a private initiative, so it is up to them (the company) to study the feasibility of the project for the government's consideration.

"I am not sure to what extent they (the company) need the government's support," he told reporters when asked on the status of the high-speed train project.

Earlier, Najib delivered a keynote address at the Global Islamic Finance Forum here.

In the Lower House Wednesday, southern state of Johor Baharu Member of Parliament questioned the significance of the project and compared it to the Rawang-Ipoh double-track railway electrification project.

Asked about the decision on the project, Najib said: "It depends on the feasibility study carried out by the private sector."

The high-speed train from KL Sentral to Singapore costing about RM8 billion (US$2.3 billion) which was proposed by YTL Corporation (KLSE:4677) managing director Francis Yeoh would cut down travel to merely 90 minutes.

(BERNAMA-OANA)

[blizzardtweaker]

Originally Posted by Pengui

I don't see any reason why Maglev would need elevated tracks... Nice idea anyway ^ ^

it doesnt, infact the 'future jb monorail' is a ground maglev tram system...

o and the existing ktm track in sg isnt nearly as straight as what a highspeed rail needs (as almost 100% leveled and straight one) so i'd rule that out...

[Pengui]

Originally Posted by blizzardtweaker

o and the existing ktm track in sg isnt nearly as straight as what a highspeed rail needs (as almost 100% leveled and straight one) so i'd rule that out...

However it is quite acceptably straight up until around Buona Vista so anyway the train would be decelerating for quite a while already. I do not think it would be too much of a concern. However I agree with Heirloom if you live in Woodlands and would have to go to Tanjong Pagar to take the train ^ ^ Plus a railway station in Woodlands would bring some commercial desirability in the surroundings, and that's in line with those plans to develop the new towns.

I wish the project is accepted and started up soon :-)

[ignoramus]

Originally Posted by blizzardtweaker

it doesnt, infact the 'future jb monorail' is a ground maglev tram system...

o and the existing ktm track in sg isnt nearly as straight as what a highspeed rail needs (as almost 100% leveled and straight one) so i'd rule that out...

I think the JB Monorail is elevated.

And maglev has to be elevated or at least totally segregated from traffic by other means because of its nature. Being high speed no accidents can happen.

[JediAlf]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Why not rip up the existing KTM rails and replace them with new high-speed track, that way there would be minimal new land and infrastructure needed. Even better use transrapid maglev and the journey time could be stupidly fast!!

Replacing KTM rails is very sticky issue - because once they replace, the services from Singapore to Johore will cease in operation. So things can get messy in poilitics.

Building a new high speed train link - requires detailed discussions between the officers of both sides

1) train power line issue
2) new rail land issue
3) terminating station issue (under Points of Agreement that by the time MRT reached Woodlands, KTM must shift its station to Woodlands.)
4) CIQ issue - Malaysia still stations its CIQ at Tanjong Pagar station - explaining why you won't get your passport stamped properly after you exit Singapore on KTM train.



Very sensitive issue....

[JediAlf]

Originally Posted by blizzardtweaker

it doesnt, infact the 'future jb monorail' is a ground maglev tram system...

o and the existing ktm track in sg isnt nearly as straight as what a highspeed rail needs (as almost 100% leveled and straight one) so i'd rule that out...

Narrow gauge rails (1000mm) cannot really sustain high speed trains. You can check out all high speed trains - all are very wide bodied types that requires over 1400 mm rail gauge. To achieve 250km/h-300km/h (definition of high speed trains), the curve of the rail has to be very gentle. Normal KTM rails in Malaysia and Singapore have sharp bends that can cause trains to overshoot the bend and derailed.

You cannot really put freight trains on the same line as the high speed trains without proper signalling system. Accidents can happen.

This explains why Shinkansen trains in Japan are seperated from normal lines. You won't see freight trains on dedicated high speed lines.

In Europe, they all have rail network of over 1400mm rail gauge (known as standard gauge) so they can easily put high speed trains and freight trains together. At every stations, they have 4 pairs of rails so that high speed trains can travel in middle, skipping the platform or freight trains can be put one line so that the fast trains can overtake the trains without colliding.

Even in KLIA case, Airport express high speed trains are seperated from normal KTM lines. This is why you never see any KTM trains on the KLIA lines because of different in rail gauge.

You can actually put TGV trains or Shinkansen train on KLIA line because of its specialized rail tracks that are designed to withstand the forces of the trains racing down the rails.

Normal tracks can get loosened from the ground and snapped after high speed trains go over.

[Maverick713]

Originally Posted by blizzardtweaker

and the existing ktm track in sg isnt nearly as straight as what a highspeed rail needs (as almost 100% leveled and straight one) so i'd rule that out...

Highspeed rails do not need to be 100% level or straight.

Whenever I travel to Shanghai, I would take the Maglev train from the Pudong International Airport. The tracks are fully elevated and the journey is not 100% level or straight but because it is elevated, the tracks actually tilt at an angle around the bends.

During the parts with bends, the train can only travel between 200km/h to 300km/h but during the straight parts of the journey, it would accelerate up to 430km/h. Whenever 2 maglev trains pass each other, there would a huge sonic boom so they would have to slow down too.

I believe they have to make it elevated in case some crazy peasants decide to end their lives by jumping in front of the train or a village goat stray to the tracks.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Pengui

However I agree with Heirloom if you live in Woodlands and would have to go to Tanjong Pagar to take the train ^ ^ Plus a railway station in Woodlands would bring some commercial desirability in the surroundings, and that's in line with those plans to develop the new towns.

If you live in Woodlands just get the bus to JB to take the train, it's much closer than Tanjong Pagar. You defeat part of the point of high-speed rail link if it doesn't go city centre to city centre. If I want to go from downtown KL to downtown Singapore, I wouldn't want to have to get off at Woodlands and spend the next half hour getting across Singapore. It would reflect badly on Singapore if connections from the KL station to downtown KL took 10 mins but the connections from the Singapore station at Woodlands to the centre took 30-45 mins or so. If a station at Woodlands is necessary, why not have them at both Tanjong Pagar and Woodlands?

[Pengui]

That's a good point :-)

[ddes]

Being realistic here, I think to terminate the HSR at Tg Pagar is terribly not practical. If you bother to look along the KTM tracks, some infrastructure are in place, Eg. flyovers, bridges built over the KTM track that makes it impossible for a wide gauge train, like HSRs to go through.

If to insist to go beyond Woodlands, the most likely place I can think of is Bukit Panjang. Building the SIN- KUL HSR terminus station there would make good sense, linking Bukit Panjang LRT, the to-be- announced Downtown Line (Bukit Timah Line terminus) to the NSL. There's enough land there and build up area there is enough, minimal demolition to the area. The place could also be a hub for Coaches, replacing the current terminus points near Lavender and Golden Mile.

This gets over the inconvenience of getting from city centre to city centre, a good compromise anyway.

This way, anyone wishing to go to the CBD area need only to transfer once to the DTL MRT.

[Andrew]

Fair enough, that sounds like a reasonable solution. If they built the terminus there though they should carefully dismantle the KTM railway station and rebuild it as Singapore Central. In any case that old railway station has got to stay, and if it could be used for new rail services it'd be even better!

[kenmin]

Originally Posted by Andrew

If you live in Woodlands just get the bus to JB to take the train, it's much closer than Tanjong Pagar. You defeat part of the point of high-speed rail link if it doesn't go city centre to city centre. If I want to go from downtown KL to downtown Singapore, I wouldn't want to have to get off at Woodlands and spend the next half hour getting across Singapore. It would reflect badly on Singapore if connections from the KL station to downtown KL took 10 mins but the connections from the Singapore station at Woodlands to the centre took 30-45 mins or so. If a station at Woodlands is necessary, why not have them at both Tanjong Pagar and Woodlands?

Even in Japan and Taiwan, not all high speed rail stations are located within the city centre. Actually, as long as there is an MRT connection, it's ok to site it in the suburb. I would prefer it to terminate at woodlands. Causeway would be even better. this will force the govt to expedite the construction of Thomson Line.

[Andrew]

I just think it'd add a lot of inconvenience to travellers and wouldn't give a good first impression of Singapore if people who wanted a fast journey from KL to Singapore have to spend ages lugging their luggage around on packed MRT trains just to get downtown.

I think it's important to either get people downtown as quickly as possible or if such a terminus was to be in Woodlands then you have to make Woodlands itself a destination. Give it a bustling town centre with plenty of attractions centred around the international train station.

[blizzardtweaker]

having a stop at woodlands and another in the city centre would solve the problem now wouldnt it?

[spikeshamz]

Maybe hey should just expediate the building around where the new appointed sites will be. Offices, hotels, shopping centres, tourist areas, entertainments. Anticipate what might be coming. At least, ppl need not travel all the way to the city centre.