South Florida Transportation Part II

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by CalleOchoGringo

Now if I were traveling to Orlando and I knew beforehand that I could get to within walking distance of where I was going there using mass transit... then I would ditch my car. But cmon, we all know if I got on a train in Miami I would have to rent a car to get just about anywhere in Orlando (other than Disney). So what incentive to I have to go through that hassle. This is why INTERcity rail travel works in Europe, because the INTRAcity masstransit foundation is already laid. We need that in every city in America before we start considering passenger rail in the US.

Orlando already has BRT downtown and is in the process of expanding it. Construction has already started on their Sunrail commuter rail system as well. This will give the intercity rail passenger direct access to most of urban Orlando as well as suburbs between Deland and Polk County. With these things in place, they will then modify their local bus system to provide better connectivity. Thus, it will be possible by 2014 to get around various parts of Orlando without the need of an automobile.

[Lakelander]

Anyone familiar with the Downtown Doral project?

http://www.downtowndoral.com/

Evidently, this is something FECI's Flagler Development Group is developing. I suspect, we'll see similar concepts around their passenger rail stations.

[South Florida]

Originally Posted by Lakelander

Anyone familiar with the Downtown Doral project?

http://www.downtowndoral.com/

Evidently, this is something FECI's Flagler Development Group is developing. I suspect, we'll see similar concepts around their passenger rail stations.

Intresting Website, Thanks for the Link.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by Lakelander

Anyone familiar with the Downtown Doral project?

http://www.downtowndoral.com/

Evidently, this is something FECI's Flagler Development Group is developing. I suspect, we'll see similar concepts around their passenger rail stations.

I think they were cut short by the downturn. Only the one building was actually built and from what I can tell it's empty. But no matter how you dress it up, that area is going to be tough to truly urbanize. Too much traffic, too little transit options, to many industrial parks and office buildings.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=25.80702,...06845&t=h&z=17

[brickell]

Oh, and this would be huge for Disney. Take the train to Orlando, hop the Disney shuttle, never leave the Disney property. I know that sounds like torture for some of you all, but a lot of people do that already when they drive. I'd be more than willing to pay the extra money for a on-property resort if it meant I didn't have to drive up there.

[CalleOchoGringo]

I'm more excited about the possibility of reverse flow. Masses of international tourists who would have JUST stayed in Orlando before would now take a train ride down to Miami to see South Beach and Miami. Yes this is a project where the synergy of both cities helps both to be a better tourist destination together.

[CF221]

Agreed

[CalleOchoGringo]

Especially because both don't really compete for the same type of tourists. Miami is more the adult and party oriented tourist. And Orlando the family and theme park tourist.

[DGM]

From the real estate development perspective there are a couple interesting possibilities. Flagler Development hopes to make money off the mixed-use tie-ins to their rail lines. Howabout we idly speculate what they'll do with their holdings. You can browse through their land holdings here.

The most interesting one is the downtown Miami site. I think condos, office towers, and a rail station would be likely.

But, that one's already been mentioned so I'll present another couple. Flagler owns a swath of land between Dadeland and the Dadeland North Metrorail station. The rail line from this site goes North to MIA and then to the Metrorail Tri-Rail station. Would it be worth setting up a commuter line their and build some condos? The site is zoned mixed-use up to 20 stories.




Next, they also own a piece of land across from Jacksonville's Metromover. While North Florida might not be as exciting as a South Florida development, something like this could help sustain the long term success of the trans-Florida route. Also, connecting mass transit systems is always good, IMO.




Finally, there's Ft. Lauderdale. A couple of months ago FEC announced that they are retrofitting their land at Port Everglades to handle the transfer of cargo directly from rail to boats (source). This frees up their old transfer facility which is just north of FLL (here) for development. That would be a good spot for hotels and office space given is proximity to the airport.

The last big question marks are what they'll do in downtown Ft. Lauderdale and downtown West Palm. I'm having a hard time figuring out what exactly they own there, but it seems like they have the capital to get some property. These would be the more lucrative developments probably.

[Lakelander]

Some more property they own in Northeast and Central Florida, paralleling their tracks.

Flagler Crossing - St. Augustine

Flagler Crossing is located in the City of St. Augustine. The 126-acre project is entitled for 888 units of multi-family housing and 150,000 square feet of retail space. The property has 65 acres of frontage on US 1. Construction of a four-lane boulevard entry to the project was recently completed.

http://www.flaglerdev.com/index.php?..._jea&Itemid=52


Central Florida

Burgess Reserve at South Park

The Burgess Reserve property is situated on approximately 21 acres in Orange County and is currently entitled for 441,000 square feet of office space. The property is adjacent to South Park Center, which is quickly becoming one of South Orlando’s most desirable corporate parks. The property is conveniently located on John Young Parkway and just south of Sand Lake Road. Burgess Reserve is minutes from the Orlando International Airport, the Orlando/Orange County Convention Center, the Florida Turnpike and the Beeline Expressway (Highway 528).

http://www.flaglerdev.com/index.php?..._jea&Itemid=52

Cadillac Gage - Cocoa

Cadillac Gage is a 71-acre parcel in Brevard County. The location of the property allows convenient access to Grissom Parkway, Martin Anderson Beachline Expressway (SR 528), and I-95. The property is directly east of Orlando and only minutes from Cape Canaveral.

http://www.flaglerdev.com/index.php?..._jea&Itemid=52

New Smyrna Beach

The property in New Smyrna Beach is 103 contiguous acres currently approved for up to 41 million square feet of mixed-use entitlements with direct rail access. The property is located in Volusia County between Daytona Beach and Titusville. The property is located just west of U.S. Highway 1 between SR-44 and Tenth Street, only minutes from I-95.

http://www.flaglerdev.com/index.php?..._jea&Itemid=52

At SR 528 & FEC tracks. A great site for a Cocoa station.


Flagler Center

Flagler Center is entitled for an additional 2.4 million square feet of office, 150,000 square feet of retail, 410 multifamily units, and 130 hotel rooms, providing an excellent balance of work space and amenities. Flagler Center’s build-to-suit opportunities, as well as existing space options, are attractive choices for high-growth companies who require a sophisticated business setting in close proximity to rooftops and amenities.

A mixed use development midway between Jax and St. Augustine, bounded by I-95 and I-795 (now under construction).


City of Jacksonville Visioning Plans at FEC's Bowden Yard on Jax's Southside:

[CF221]

Thank you so much for that overview! It's really informative and speaks lots about the POTENTIAL for this project.

[DGM]

The Cocoa Beach site is interesting because it is also right next to the Bee Line Expressway. It is rumored that their extension to Orlando will run down the Bee Line straight to Orlando International Airport. It would be a pretty good spot for some mixed use development.

[South Florida]

I wonder how the Wave streetcar (Ft.Lauderdale) will tie in with the Ft.Lauderdale Station.

[mr jones]

As long as Ft Lauderdale train station is located on the east side of the FEC between NE 4th St and SE 2nd St, the Wave could potentially have a direct connection

[South Florida]

^ The Latest Update on the Wave, VIA their Facebook page was that they had meet with federal officials in February, but they haven't posted any recent news. I tried to email them, but did not get a reply.

If the Wave is scheduled for Operation in late 2015, project development will be occurring currently, but I guess we can only assume.

[Paul305]

From the MICDOT website:

[Paul305]

Also, for those of you who haven't yet seen the 826-836 Project renderings:

[Lakelander]

Looks like a big expensive project that will never pay for itself? I assume FDOT will be upping some tolls in this area to help recoup some of the construction and ongoing maintenance costs?

[DShoost88]

It makes me sad that FDOT is spending as much on that highway interchange as it would cost to build a light rail along Flagler Street extending from downtown Miami to the 826. But hey, this just reflects Floridians' priorities... their loss, not mine.

[ftlauddude]

Originally Posted by Lakelander

Looks like a big expensive project that will never pay for itself? I assume FDOT will be upping some tolls in this area to help recoup some of the construction and ongoing maintenance costs?

Half of the $700+million cost of this project is from the tolls. This is a job where federal/no-federal funds are used; where FDOT is the agency overseeing the project. FDOT is not in charge of those tolls, it is MDX; and if you see the Master Plan, what they are trying to do is charge you by the mileage you drive meaning that the more you drive on SR 836 the more you'll pay.

Originally Posted by DShoost88

It makes me sad that FDOT is spending as much on that highway interchange as it would cost to build a light rail along Flagler Street extending from downtown Miami to the 826. But hey, this just reflects Floridians' priorities... their loss, not mine.

I mentioned this a couple of months ago. When I was a SoFL Civil Engineer Society lunch, MDX talked about (among other things) using BRT that'll take people from out west till the MIC or even Dwtn Miami; just as it is done in Broward. Honestly, that intersection needed a re-make since it was due and was reaching its life expectancy--yes roadways and bridges have a life span too!