The Israeli Anti-War Movement Is Growing Stronger

[Yuval]

This week, a petition of young israeli authors, editors and critics opposing the war made news around the country. It was quoted as the emergence of intelligent and influential dissent aimed at changing public opinion. Inspired by it, a few mainstream figures such as author David Grossman, have already followed suit at voiced anger at the government's actions.

Yours truly was among those who signed. Today a group of us met along with Author Nir Bar'am, who initiated the petition, and charted our future activities. I will be in chage of contact with the international media. If any of you can send me the contact information of newspapers, television channels, radio stations and internet portals in Lebanon and other countries, I will be very greatful.

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[lebgurl]

Yuval, I honestly have to say that you have been single-handedly responsible for my opinion of the Israeli population. Thank u for everything u've done and for snapping me back to reality a few times. I hope Israel always has people like you to remind people like me of what's on the other side of that border. God bless you!

[Yuval]

Thanks so much, Lebgurl, and thanks also for hinting that you remember that I'm not alone in my views.

I truly believe that Israelis are just like everybody else. Mostly we want peace, but we are also easily propagandised and threatened, which is what is hapenning these days. We may be more easily propagandised than other nations, because of the trauma of the holocaust, but we are not 100% stupid. A little effort can create here a much wider awareness of the futility of the war and that's what we're trying to create.

So it you can find for me an email address of Tampa newspapers, the Miami Herald or of Lebanese media sources, we'll send them our press release and make one step further. in the meantime, God bless you too. I know how hard it is to be far away when things like these are hapenning at home. I hope all will change for the better soon.

[ZOHAR]

true

[Yuval]

Zohar, i will send you the new version of the petition as soon as it is drafted. It's not "radical left" nor is intended to be, it is an expression of worry and horror at what the war is doing to our neighbors and to us, and a call for an immidiate ceasefire which will be followed by dialogue with the Lebanese government and international factors.

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[ZOHAR]

ok

[Yuval]

More than 5000 people protested against Israel's war policy tonight in Tel-Aviv. The estimate was given by Haaretz, I was not there because I was busy writing the press release about the authors' petition group.

The first demonstration in Tel-Aviv was made up of nearly 1000 people,

the second was made up of about 3000 people.

tonight we were over 5000.

It's all a question of time, and those who supported Israel's excessive aggression at first will have to pretend that they did not. "What?" Thery're going to say, "I was against it from the very beginning! I could see plainly that it was immoral, brutal and unwise!"

A few of us are breaking out of the folds of propaganda, let's hope enough of us do so before much more damage is done.

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[zeide_m]

Hello Yuval!
I'm new participent here, but I read your and your friends' notes. I see that support in this foolish petition of young "writers" as they call themselves. Again, they and the rest of the countries around the world belive that by an agreement with the Lebanese government the problem of Hizbollah will be solved. I'm sorry for awaking you and especially Nir Bar'am from this dream, but I have to. As I sad of the dozens of deaths here in Israel, I'm sorry for the deaths of Lebanese civilians, but you must understand - this is a war! not against the Lebanese people, but against the Hizbollah. This is not acceptable that a country gets hundreds of rockets every day an remain silent! In a war everyone here must understand - if you hide militions in your house or the fire next to you house into other state - you must pay the price for it. Hizbollah isn't an army that fights face to face with Israeli soldiers - it is a cowered organization that hides behind citizents and fire rockets into towns and cities in Israel in order to kill as much as possible Israeli civilians. you can tell things such as that the Lebanese are not responsible to Hizbollah - sorry, Hizbollah elected to the paliament and he has members in the government with the same convention as its milition - destroy Israel! If this is the elected government which members of it send thousand of rockets into Israel in order to kill honest civilians - the government and its elected ministers must pay the price for it - such as Drezden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima suffered in WW2 by the allies without any stupid petition of their civilians. So you and your leftwing friends understand - there is a war in the North with the most evil thing on earth - and this is not a time for cease fire with it or peace with this nation which will make it stronger and more dangerous, because Hizbolla will not be disarmed because his patrones - Iran - wion't allow this to happen. There is only one way that it understands - war. Unfortunately - the mankind didn't invented peaceful ways to end conflicts - see your lovely Oslo agreemants - more than 1100 dead Israelis. And stop be a exilic jew - we are not the problem and we are not responsible for their haterad intowards us!

[Beiruti]

Just to clarify, the reason why there are "Hizballah members" in the Cabinet and Parliament is because Lebanon is a democracy in which there is a balance between the sects that make up the country. There are supposed to be Shia members elected (they have a certain number of seats) and due to the popularity of Hizballah among the Shia, they got elected. Also, the pro-Western Siniora government HAD to allow Hizballah members into the cabinet so that there would be political stability in the country and so a large portion of the population (shias) would be happy. Dont forget that this gov was formed right after the Cedar Revolution and the turbulent unstable time period that followed. The 2 Hizballah members actually walked out of the cabinet for 2 monthes because of disagreement and they only recently rejoined the gov. I could go on and on but I dont want to bore you. My point is it is not as simple as it seems, it isnt like the Lebanese gov is happy with Hizballah and Hizballah is an embedded part of the government.

[Shohad]

Zeide has a point. While cessation of fire will ease things up for the Lebanese civilians, it will only postpone the inevitable – the next round. To prevent this, we need a long lasting agreement with the Lebanese government. Unfortunately, it is not in the position to fight Hezbollah as long as the terrorists are powerful militarily. This is exactly why an immediate ceasefire hurts Israeli and Lebanese interests. Do our Beiruty friends think that their country will ever be stable while part of its territory is an Iranian colony? Have you heard ahmadinajad lately?

[Shohad]

Originally Posted by Beirut!

Just to clarify, the reason why there are "Hizballah members" in the Cabinet and Parliament is because Lebanon is a democracy in which there is a balance between the sects that make up the country. There are supposed to be Shia members elected (they have a certain number of seats) and due to the popularity of Hizballah among the Shia, they got elected. Also, the pro-Western Siniora government HAD to allow Hizballah members into the cabinet so that there would be political stability in the country and so a large portion of the population (shias) would be happy. Dont forget that this gov was formed right after the Cedar Revolution and the turbulent unstable time period that followed. The 2 Hizballah members actually walked out of the cabinet for 2 monthes because of disagreement and they only recently rejoined the gov. I could go on and on but I dont want to bore you. My point is it is not as simple as it seems, it isnt like the Lebanese gov is happy with Hizballah and Hizballah is an embedded part of the government.

What is your point? It is true that the Lebanese government can’t do anything against Hezbollah. They represent a huge population of the country (how much, 1 million?). Thinking that the government could be encouraged to act against the Hezbollah was foolish, but fighting Hezbollah is right.

[Herzeleid]

hezbollah only does harm to lebanon, i dunno why they are accepted as a political party in the first place

[Nadini]

Herzeileid its not as simple as it sounds, if they werent accepted in the seat then they will probably attack Lebanon itseld or even worse a civil war will erupt among the Christians, Sunni, Druze against the Shia's

[lebgurl]

ok lets go a few decades back in the US of A ... remember 'commies', 'nazis', etc? terms like that were practically banned ...something VERY un-democratic ... but it still happened! today u c nazi and communist parties all over the country running for office, holding positions and functioning just fine. now fast forward to say 20-30 years from now ... do u c parties like hizbulla, al qaeda (not that they should b clumped together into one category under any cicumstances) in office in the states?

the point im trying to make is that if a group has a following, guess what they have the right to practice their beliefs (democracy 101) ... yes EVEN hizbulla! and with their support growing everyday, I dont c how u could even stop them ... if anything, for every bomb being dropped on lebanon right now, u have nasralla, asaad, iran ayatollahs, and all the crazy fucks like em going "yesssssssssss" ... y? because with every bomb dropped, that 20 people joining their ranks. so kudos to israel on eliminating the threat of terrorism on its land!!!!

[B-Patriot]

Aren't there neo-nazi parties in some european countries..!

Its a democratic country... With a tense, somewhat fragile, confessional political system...

As Nadini said, its not as simple as it sounds.. Not as simple as u think it is..

The issue of disarming hezbollah has been raised, discussed.. Its a very slow process...

Lebanon for the first time has an opposition majority in parliament... They're making progress.. Discussing issues like the disarmament of hezbollah, the forced resignation or vote of no-confidence for the syrian protegé president Emile Lahoud...

Its a slow process, but they're finally making progress, but i guess Israel has decided its run out of patience...

[Yuval]

I don't accept the argument that the Hezbollah was ever a legitimate political part, because it was armed to the teeth. In a democracy, a party must be a party, not a guerilla organization.

In a democratic state, there must be only one armed organization which is an internationally recognized military. Control of that military can than change hands through a democratic process.

This is what Zeide doesn't get. Me and my friends are against the Hezbollah, which is exactly why we don't like the fact that our governemtn is strengthening it. Lebgurl is making this point vividly:

Originally Posted by lebgurl

for every bomb being dropped on lebanon right now, u have nasralla, asaad, iran ayatollahs, and all the crazy fucks like em going "yesssssssssss" ... y? because with every bomb dropped, that 20 people joining their ranks. so kudos to israel on eliminating the threat of terrorism on its land!!!!

The whole idea of crushing the Hezbollah through military victory is a joke, an old fashioned fantasy of our generals. In reality, the Hezbollah has Iran behind it rearming it as we speak, and as long as Israel acts brutally as it does in Lebanon, it will find no shortage of recruits.

We could have weakened Hezbollah by supporting a prosperous Lebanon, instead we fell into Iran's trap, hurt Lebanon's prosperity and served the fundamentalist interests. The Lebanese may have let Hezbollah into their parliament, but we gave it its real power over the last month.

As we have done with the Palestinians over the years of occupation, we are creating our enemies with our very hands at a very expensive, deadly process that takes a terrible toll from both countries, but especially from Lebanon. This has to stop.

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[zeide_m]

Yuval, let me remind you sometging about your thesis:
After the suicide attack on June 2nd 2001 in a club in Tel Aviv, a.k.a slaughter (not an act of freedom) which was supported by your lovely PLO - Sharon decided surprisingly not to respond by saying : restraint is power, also because the majority of his cabinet ministers were leftwing and they were afraid that some "bombs" would make more palestinians to join to terrorist militions. Since he didn't act against them when they were weak enough, the became stronger and until opperation "Homat Magen" in April 2002 - more than 600 Israelis were killed. If Sharon had acted against them early in 2001, not only lives of Israelis were saved, but live of palestinians would have been saved too. So give us a break - let us finish our job in Lebanon.

[Yuval]

Your "job" is not well defined, its goals are unclear and possibly unattianable. Using such terms as "finish our job" in nothing but repeating propaganda slogans.

Or is our job strengthening the Hezbollah politically? because that is certainly being done.

Moreover, examples having to do with small scale terror acts don't neccesarily hold true when faced with an Iranian backed, powerful organization across an international border.

This isn't going very well, Bint Jbail is not yet conquered, the kidnapped soldiers have not been returned, the meyham is real.

Trust me, Zeide, I think a job should be done in the north, I think change must come to the region and to Lebanon, but it must be done intelligently. Currently, I am distraught.

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[zeide_m]

As Israel found the way to fight against the palestinian terrorism and reduce it (at least in the west bank. In Gaza we need to do the same because diplomatic steps gave us Hamas in the government and rockest on the south). It will take time and deaths from both sides but trust me, we will find a way.

The Hizbollah can't never disappear by diplomatic steps - even if Seniora wouid like to -he can't, because Ideology can't be disappear by diplomacy.

IDF is too moral in this war - and Hizbollah uses it for its needs. As NATO did in the Balkans - by pressuring the Serbian population to convince its govenment to stop the brutal acts in Kosovo - and that worked - we shall do the same because as Beirut! meant - only the Shias can presuure Hizbollah because it grew up in them. Moreover The UN (Um shmum) must now to impose sanctions on Iran - or else Israel will act itself... (remeber "opera" opperation in 1981 in Iraq?)

[Yuval]

Originally Posted by zeide_m

IDF is too moral in this war - and Hizbollah uses it for its needs.

This is the new propaganda line these days. i've heard several people use it on the radio today. I think it's horrific.

Zeide, turn on the news. Your govenrment and mine just knocked down a building with at least 60 people in it. Is that moral? if armed gunmen were hiding in your building and I bombed it from the air, would you salute me for my good ethics?

You may be right in your skepticism toward diplomacy as far as Hezbollah goes, but this is only making things worse, and won't make them better in the long run. noting but a huge, terrible waste.

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