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View Poll Results: Pick which one you would like to see built
Twin Towers II 418 60.06%
Freedom Tower 278 39.94%
Voters: 696. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 15th, 2007, 04:52 AM   #101
Daquan13
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I voted for the Freedom Tower.

Even though I'd like to see new Twins rebuilt, I think the Freedom Tower helps get rid of that boxy-style that the original Twins had. The newer design still shows that.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 05:26 AM   #102
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The Freedom Tower Master Plan is better in every way. It will just take some time before people come to see it as an icon. Imbecilic terrorists will want to get their hands on it more than the Twins, but they wouldn't be able to do anything at all.

FT itself is a giant, palpable middle finger to Anti-Americanism throughout the world. Don't like the name? Go suck a pickle.

Last edited by Ebola; October 15th, 2007 at 05:32 AM.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 05:56 AM   #103
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I just hope that more terrorists aren't planning to knock THIS one down!!
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Old October 15th, 2007, 05:57 AM   #104
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I would prefer the Twiin Towers 2. It would make New York, New York again.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 05:07 PM   #105
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There is no way that any developer would build a big project like this using a style that is as outdated and unfashionable as the twin towers. If it was at all possible they would have been remodeled prior to 2001 to make them more contemporary.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 05:21 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
There is no way that any developer would build a big project like this using a style that is as outdated and unfashionable as the twin towers. If it was at all possible they would have been remodeled prior to 2001 to make them more contemporary.


They WERE going to start being rehabbed just mere weeks before 09-11 when Silverstein bought the property, signed the insurance policies and hired longtime friend David Childs to do the rehab work on the towers and the mall.

As a matter of fact, some of the ceiling panels were being replaced because of cancer-causing asbestos, and both the towers were going to have all the panels replaced, in time.

The fire dept. was also there doing ruitine checkups that morning.

Silverstein himself, was almost killed in the attacks!! Every morning at about 9am, he would go up to WOTW to have some breakfast. A doc's appointment had kept him away from the WTC that morning.

He was about to go up there to eat anyway, but his wife had successfully persuaded him to go to his appointment instead. He almost would have been amongst the many victims who were murdered that morning!!!

Childs had later stayed on, as you know, to design and build 7 WTC and the Freedom Tower.

Last edited by Daquan13; October 16th, 2007 at 08:16 PM.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 08:46 PM   #107
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I am talking about a radical redesign that would have made them unrecognizable since very few people were satisfied the way they were. However since the facades were holding up the buildings there wasn't much that could be done to disguise them.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #108
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Central tower, Nagoya Japan
416,565 ㎡
(226m, 245m)

Freedom tower, NYC
240,000 ㎡
(antenna 541‚j

World Trade Center Building, NYC
148,600 m2
(antenna 528m)
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Old October 15th, 2007, 10:31 PM   #109
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^ big deal, WTC 1 and 2 had a combined floorspace of 800,000 square meters. That's why they were part of a complex as the freedom tower will be.

The Freedom tower is being built. That is that.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 10:37 PM   #110
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Those numbers make no sense.^


Don't forget that the New WTC is the largest office complex in the world and the Freedom Tower is the tallest office building in the world.

Last edited by Ebola; October 16th, 2007 at 01:30 AM.
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Old October 16th, 2007, 09:30 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
Those numbers make no sense.
Don't forget that the New WTC is the largest office complex in the world and the Freedom Tower is the tallest office building in the world.
*JR Central tower (Japan) is the world's largest building for the building of the simple substance. It appears in the Guinness Book of Records .

*Roppongi Hills (Tokyo) is 759,100m2. This is the largest office complex in the world.

*The Tokyo midtown is 569,000m2. if I include apartments.


As for the freedom tower, the height that was able to include an antenna is the number one in the world. However, the area of the main tower has only 148,600 square meters.
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Old October 16th, 2007, 09:48 AM   #112
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Freedom tower and the WTC is slim.
The area to be usable as an office is small.

 Only in the main tower.
Central tower, Nagoya Japan. (Guinness Book of Records)
416,565 ㎡
(226m, 245m)

Sears Tower, Chicago
400,000 ㎡
(antenna 529m)

Yokohama landmark tower tower, Japan
231,060㎡ (total 392,885㎡)

Mori tawer, Tokyo
380,000 ㎡, Total 759,100m2
(245m)

Taipei 101, Taipei. (The world fastest elevator made in Japan.)
379,038 ㎡
(antenna 500m)

Shanghai World Financial Center, China. (The world fastest elevator made in Japan.)
377,300 ㎡
(492m)

Tobu department store / metropolitan plaza, Tokyo
282,307 ㎡
(Full length 500m)

Shinjuku park tower, Tokyo
269,200 ㎡
(240m)

John Hancock Center, Chicago
260,126 ㎡
343.5m (antenna 457.2m)

New Umeda Hankyu Building, Osaka Japan
252,000 ㎡
(200m)

Tokyo midtown tower, Tokyo
246,407 ㎡, Total 569,000 m2
(248 m)

Freedom tower, NYC
240,000 ㎡
(antenna 541m)

World Trade Center Building, NYC
148,600 m2
(antenna 528m)
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Old October 16th, 2007, 10:20 AM   #113
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My favourite buildings go to WTC - truly miss the twin towers , they are amazingly impressive !
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Old October 16th, 2007, 06:29 PM   #114
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p-s-30, you sure do come out with some crazy crap. You're figures for the previous WTC towers are wrong. And so what, there are big buildings in terms of surface area everywhere, you can go across the Downtown Manhattan and find the world's biggest skyscraper in terms of floorspace in the world - 20 water street (or some other number I forget). But it's just not that impressive.
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Old October 16th, 2007, 08:13 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
I am talking about a radical redesign that would have made them unrecognizable since very few people were satisfied the way they were. However since the facades were holding up the buildings there wasn't much that could be done to disguise them.


Not necessarily the facades. There were steel skeletons underneath the facades.

The closely-knit lightweight tubular steel frames, along with the cores, had shared practically the same load-bearing responsibilities - making the towers both rigid and sturdy.

The facades themselves cleverly had the exact same shape and stature of the framework. Narrow windows were only 22 inches wide because Yama was deathly afraid of heights, even though he designed the monster towers.

In fact, ALL of his work on highrise office towers had narrow windows.
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Old October 17th, 2007, 01:12 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
*JR Central tower (Japan) is the world's largest building for the building of the simple substance. It appears in the Guinness Book of Records .

*Roppongi Hills (Tokyo) is 759,100m2. This is the largest office complex in the world.

*The Tokyo midtown is 569,000m2. if I include apartments.


As for the freedom tower, the height that was able to include an antenna is the number one in the world. However, the area of the main tower has only 148,600 square meters.
You really need to stay up to date.

The World Trade Center will be the largest office complex on Earth again. I was talking about FT's height.
Freedom Tower is the world's tallest office building.


759,100m^2 = 8,170,884.4 feet^2


Only office:
1WTC 2.6MSF
2WTC 2.4MSF
3WTC 2.2 MSF
4WTC 2MSF
7WTC 1.7MSF
6WTC Over 1.3MSF


The World Trade Center has way more than 8.2msf of office space. The New WTC has around 12msf of office space in total, plus stuff like a dozen trading floors.

The World Trade center is OVER 1,000,000 (1 million) m2 (only including office space).

Last edited by Ebola; October 17th, 2007 at 01:27 AM.
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Old October 17th, 2007, 08:20 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
You really need to stay up to date.
The World Trade Center will be the largest office complex on Earth again. I was talking about FT's height.
Freedom Tower is the world's tallest office building.
759,100m^2 = 8,170,884.4 feet^2
The World Trade Center has way more than 8.2msf of office space. The New WTC has around 12msf of office space in total, plus stuff like a dozen trading floors.The World Trade center is OVER 1,000,000 (1 million) m2 (only including office space).
No.
The effective office space of WTC (Twin Towers) is 148,600 ㎡.
The others were not used as an office.
As for "Mori tower" (itseruf), an effective office area is 380,000㎡.

"The JR Central tower" appears in the Guinness Book of Records as the world's largest building.

"FT" is the world's highest, if I include an antenna.
But "Taipei 101" and "Shanghai finance center" is higher in the height of building in itself.
Japanese "Mori Building" designs the Shanghai financial center .

It is caused by American vanity to build an impractical skyscraper.
The building of Tokyo does not have much height. But, total of the area of all buildings of Tokyo is the greatest in the world.

Last edited by [email protected]; October 17th, 2007 at 08:28 AM.
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Old October 17th, 2007, 08:37 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
No.
The effective office space of WTC (Twin Towers) is 148,600 ㎡.
The others were not used as an office.
As for "Mori tower" (itseruf), an effective office area is 380,000㎡.

"The JR Central tower" appears in the Guinness Book of Records as the world's largest building.

"FT" is the world's highest, if I include an antenna.
But "Taipei 101" and "Shanghai finance center" is higher in the height of building in itself.
Japanese "Mori Building" designs the Shanghai financial center .

It is caused by American vanity to build an impractical skyscraper.
The building of Tokyo does not have much height. But, total of the area of all buildings of Tokyo is the greatest in the world.




What the F*** are you talking about? Just the rebuilt 7WTC alone has more than 148,600m^2 of office space. Where the hell did you get your numbers? Half of it is wrong. Both World Trade Center complexes were and will be by far bigger than any thing else. You're changing the subject and pretending how superior wherever you come from is. Maybe you just were thinking of one single Trade Center building.

"World Trade Center Building, NYC
148,600 m2
(antenna 528m)"

Obviously you're talking about the old WTC because that's the height to the tip, but you're wrong because the old WTC is larger than all of those buildings. Old WTC would be Number 1 with over 430,000 square meters of office space (within just one tower!)...



The reason why newer American skyscrapers don't usually have as much usable space when compared to a past counterpart is only because of safety concerns; for example, it may be a waste of money, but using internal space, which otherwise could be used as office space, for extra structural support could prevent lives from being lost in cause of a tragedy. For me, I don't care how much space is in a skyscraper, as long as the thing looks big.

Last edited by Ebola; October 19th, 2007 at 06:32 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2007, 04:31 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquan13 View Post
Not necessarily the facades. There were steel skeletons underneath the facades.

The closely-knit lightweight tubular steel frames, along with the cores, had shared practically the same load-bearing responsibilities - making the towers both rigid and sturdy.

The facades themselves cleverly had the exact same shape and stature of the framework. Narrow windows were only 22 inches wide because Yama was deathly afraid of heights, even though he designed the monster towers.

In fact, ALL of his work on highrise office towers had narrow windows.
I didn't know that. I always thought the skin was the framework and the narrow windows were for strenth......at least that is what I have read. As they went up the exterior sheeth, facade, whatever you call it was applied as a single thickness, not an inner frame and an outer skin. In any case we were stuck with it, there was no way to change it the way one could re-skin a conventional building and the buildings were tolerated because they couldn't be changed, but hardly somthing to reproduce from scratch. I noticed on trump's plan they seemed to have horizontal strip windows although the building shapes were the same as the old towers. I wouldn't be surprised if his proposal included traditional concrete cores. Actually on second thought Trump's towers look pretty good to me, much better then the originals.
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Old October 19th, 2007, 08:42 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
There is no way that any developer would build a big project like this using a style that is as outdated and unfashionable as the twin towers. If it was at all possible they would have been remodeled prior to 2001 to make them more contemporary.
No offense, but when I hear something like this it is more of an excuse not to rebuilt the Twins rather than a reason. Honestly, I view that statement as if Osama Bin Laden did the right thing by destroying them so that such a new thing can be done. Older skyscrapers actually can have updated engineering, and such a thing isn't even new. As I recall the ESB was built w/o building codes, which is why it was built so fast, but is subject to constant rennovation so it can meet today's safety standards. If people really look at the Belton-Gardner Plan in full, the only thing that looks the same is the Twins themselves, while the rest is all different. If it was really trying to erase 9/11, then it would been exactly as it looked before 9/11.
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