Halifax kills Commonwealth Games bid, national organizer furious at decision

[Canadian Chocho]

YEAH!! I really hope you guys get it! I think you would do a great job and would finally get that needed stadium!! Also, you know the stadium is gunna be a good facility and look nice since its brand new for the games!! GOOD LUCK!!

[mr.x]

Jim seems to be scared about anything and everything, and it's this kind of attitude that stalls Canadians from improving themselves and succeeding. It's almost as if there's this crazy person running down the street, pointing and screaming at everything and running away from it.

Take a look at Singapore....this small country only had farmland not too long ago, but because of their determination to succeed they're now one of the richest countries per capita on the planet with skyscrapers dominating the skyline.

An event like the Commonwealth Games is Halifax's and the Maritimes opportunity to show to the world, Canada, and most importantly itself that it can accomplish something, be proud of it and reap the benefits of hosting these Games.




Anyway, Jim....your facts are wrong, again. The capital cost of the Melbourne 2006 Athletes Village for the organizing committee was $35 million (not $80 million) - which involves providing furniture, security infrastructure, a dining hall, etc. for the Village. The $85 million of the actual cost to build the Village, funded by taxpayers, was $85 million (not $80 million). This development includes a major post-games social housing component.

[HaliGuy]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Jim seems to be scared about anything and everything, and it's this kind of attitude that stalls Canadians from improving themselves and succeeding. It's almost as if there's this crazy person running down the street, pointing and screaming at everything and running away from it.

Take a look at Singapore....this small country only had farmland not too long ago, but because of their determination to succeed they're now one of the richest countries per capita on the planet with skyscrapers dominating the skyline.

An event like the Commonwealth Games is Halifax's and the Maritimes opportunity to show to the world, Canada, and most importantly itself that it can accomplish something, be proud of it and reap the benefits of hosting these Games.




Anyway, Jim....your facts are wrong, again. The capital cost of the Melbourne 2006 Athletes Village for the organizing committee was $35 million (not $80 million) - which involves providing furniture, security infrastructure, a dining hall, etc. for the Village. The $85 million of the actual cost to build the Village, funded by taxpayers, was $85 million (not $80 million). This development includes a major post-games social housing component.

You are absolutly correct, this is an amazing opportunity and its attitudes of people like Jim that brings this country down.

[Jonestowncultinpicto]

Originally Posted by Wishblade

You know Jim, if you didnt think Halifax had atleast a chance, you wouldnt be spending your time preaching your case you everybody. So you must have atleast a little fear of it winning the bid.

A one percent chance is way too much for me. The bid should be withdrawn that would be my goal and if showing the reasons why we will A. be in debt for over 100 years and B. show that even the money being put into the bid is perhaps wasteful and will not be rewared in the end .

I beleive you have a very convincing case to end the entire bid from halifax and let glasgow and abuja duke it out by themselves. We are not even in the same league for facilities and the standard they have set will be 2 billion to meet when you do have to pay for security, operations and the 80 million dollar franchise fee to the federation.

I have said it before wishblade get a logical stadium development without europeans telling you what to do and it would have my support. wrapping a CFL stadium in commonwealth games bid is not that way to gain a stadium at any reasonable cost.

There is no commerical value in a commonwealth games period.

jim jones

[Jonestowncultinpicto]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Jim seems to be scared about anything and everything, and it's this kind of attitude that stalls Canadians from improving themselves and succeeding. It's almost as if there's this crazy person running down the street, pointing and screaming at everything and running away from it.

Take a look at Singapore....this small country only had farmland not too long ago, but because of their determination to succeed they're now one of the richest countries per capita on the planet with skyscrapers dominating the skyline.

An event like the Commonwealth Games is Halifax's and the Maritimes opportunity to show to the world, Canada, and most importantly itself that it can accomplish something, be proud of it and reap the benefits of hosting these Games.




Anyway, Jim....your facts are wrong, again. The capital cost of the Melbourne 2006 Athletes Village for the organizing committee was $35 million (not $80 million) - which involves providing furniture, security infrastructure, a dining hall, etc. for the Village. The $85 million of the actual cost to build the Village, funded by taxpayers, was $85 million (not $80 million). This development includes a major post-games social housing component.

Geee you mention singapore how come they have pulled out of biding on the commonwealth games a couple of times since victoria but they undertake a opera house that cost 1 billion dollars. Please stop with the 35 million for the games village it is out in the open in fairfax media papers like the age and the sunday herald what the cost of the melbourne facilites were. But Hey that will not be the way it goes in halifax afterall as we should be all so neive to think that bureaucrates from the HRM and the Province of Nova Scotia will lead us to beleive . There will be no labour unions to deal with, no materials going up over the next couple of years Gasoline and diesel will be at 2 bucks a gallon. It will be a buyers market for steel and concrete and the europeans will let Us get away with the proposal for an outdoor velodrome on the side of citidel hill as opposed to the indoor velodromes that have been at the last three games and are part of the bids from Abuja and Glasgow.

Yes that is why you look at it and say that halifax is in the worst position to even try to pull an estimate of 785 million. Glasgow and Abuja atleast have many if not all the facilities in place today so they know there costs.
The final tab for a games does not come until you pay for the facilities completely and borrowing for the taxpayers is not paying for the facilities it is denying services that are really needed get the shaft on the deal.

Man oh man mr x you dont seem to get it do you 85 million paid for by the taxpayers is the cost. Who gives a crap about what the committee paid they are civil servants paln and simple with a check book from the government LOL. There is no social housing component when the condos are going for 850,000 a piece and the medium price of a house in melbourne is 365,000. sounds like the taxpayers fudned a big fat gouge and that no one would be able to afford to live there but the rich.

jim jones

[mr.x]

Geee you mention singapore how come they have pulled out of biding on the commonwealth games a couple of times since victoria but they undertake a opera house that cost 1 billion dollars.

Like many other cities, Singapore has Olympic ambitions and has been wishy washy on using the Commonwealth Games as a stepping stone. Nevertheless, the nation still has that ambition and determination to succeed and be on top of the mountain.

Singaporeans appreciate and embrace culture and sport - unlike Canadians....which explains for a $1 billion opera house.

Please stop with the 35 million for the games village it is out in the open in fairfax media papers like the age and the sunday herald what the cost of the melbourne facilites were. But Hey that will not be the way it goes in halifax afterall as we should be all so neive to think that bureaucrates from the HRM and the Province of Nova Scotia will lead us to beleive....

....Man oh man mr x you dont seem to get it do you 85 million paid for by the taxpayers is the cost. Who gives a crap about what the committee paid they are civil servants paln and simple with a check book from the government LOL. There is no social housing component when the condos are going for 850,000 a piece and the medium price of a house in melbourne is 365,000. sounds like the taxpayers fudned a big fat gouge and that no one would be able to afford to live there but the rich.

Parksville Athletes Village Construction Cost: $85 million
Commonwealth Games Facilities Cost (responsibility of organizing committee) at Parksville Athletes Village: $35 million

Really...nobody takes you seriously here and at GamesBids so I don't really know why you keep coming back unless you feel very threatened. I actually find your posts to be quite entertaining and I'm sure others do too.

200 of the 1000 units at the former Athletes Village at Parksville are now social housing units. The $85 million development was funded by the government. In order to balance the books for building the village and the 200 units of social housing, the other 800 units have to be sold for a lot more money - for the wealthy. Everybody wins...the taxpayer, the rich, and the poor.

Take a look at a similar government development in Vancouver, called Woodwards. This development is meant to rejuvenate Vancouver's downtown slum neighbourhood. The gov't, city, Simon Fraser University, and the contractor are funding this $200 million development which includes 200 social housing units, shops, community and public green space, a daycare, and a new addition to the SFU downtown campus: the School for Contemporary Arts. In exchange for the tens and tens and tens of millions worth of amenities the contractor will build, the city has allowed the contractor to build an additional tower on the site as well as raise the height of the other tower for 500 market housing units. These 500 market housing units were all sold within days for prices between $700,000 to a little over $2 million - and this is in Vancouver's slum.

That's the genius of these kind of developments, which began in Vancouver....in exchange for public and social amenities built by the developer/contractor, they receive allowance to build more. For example, nearly all of Vancouver's condo development in the last 15 years included some exchange for a public amenity. Vancouver has received elementary schools, parks, day cares, roads, community centres, social housing, and many more in exchange for additional building density and height for market development. Again, everybody wins.

[Jackie003]

new stadium = cfl expansion team

can anyone say ATLANTIC SCHOONERS?

hope this happens, would be great for Canadian Sports on the East Coast

[Jonestowncultinpicto]

so wasnt there supposed to be a social assistance hosuing development in vancouver for the displacement of homeless peoples prior to Expo 86. That group was lead by a man who is now city councillor. Seems to me it was to be in a building in the gastown area called the woodworth building I beleive.
So what ever happened to that project the politicans got rid of the problem and then didnt fullfil the promise they made. LOL

Anyways the athletes village cost 85 million in melbourne no matter how you divide it. I would like to know how shannon park will have enough room for an athletes villiage of 6000 athletes, coaches and official , a stadium of 35,000 . A field house and an aquatics centre. Seems to me there is not enought room there LOL after all you might be looking at 300 units when shannon park was operating as military housing .

yes like the velodrome on citidel hill which would be on land the HRM does not own and will never because it is a national historic park we have these neive dreamers who cant even put a proper plan together let alone deal with political realities of a tory minority government looking at a metro area with no chance that they will win a single seat in that area. If we were looking at a spring election and the liberals by a miracle were to take power the paper shuffle would be too late for the halifax bid.

Say MR. X did you know that the provincial minister of energy and resources for nova scotia Mr. Bill Dooks was in Whitehouse two weekends ago pleading with the federal tories to honor the funding commitment of the former liberal government for converting the universities, hospitals and provincial government building to natural gas at a cost of 20 million in the pennisual of halifax???. If the provincial government cant afford that little project how do they think they will fund the 600 million they claim will be the upper limit of funding for the commonwealth games for the provincial share ????



Of course you already knew that didnt you MR. X.
LOL

jim jones

[Penhorn]

For people outside of and unfamiliar with Halifax, here's an overview of the proposed games site, as well as a little background information:



By the way, this is on the Dartmouth side of Halifax Harbour.

[Penhorn]

Originally Posted by Jonestowncultinpicto

I would like to know how shannon park will have enough room for an athletes villiage of 6000 athletes, coaches and official , a stadium of 35,000 . A field house and an aquatics centre. Seems to me there is not enought room there LOL after all you might be looking at 300 units when shannon park was operating as military housing .

Jim, if Shannon Park was too small, don't you think someone would've noticed by now?!

[Haligonian]

Obviously Jim should take his amazing new discovery to the bid committee immediately.

[mr.x]

so wasnt there supposed to be a social assistance hosuing development in vancouver for the displacement of homeless peoples prior to Expo 86. That group was lead by a man who is now city councillor. Seems to me it was to be in a building in the gastown area called the woodworth building I beleive.
So what ever happened to that project the politicans got rid of the problem and then didnt fullfil the promise they made. LOL

That man you speak of is not in city council anymore and in fact lost his election as mayor of the city last November. Get your facts straight.

Anyways the athletes village cost 85 million in melbourne no matter how you divide it. I would like to know how shannon park will have enough room for an athletes villiage of 6000 athletes, coaches and official , a stadium of 35,000 . A field house and an aquatics centre. Seems to me there is not enought room there LOL after all you might be looking at 300 units when shannon park was operating as military housing .

Ummm.....Shannon Park is 40 hectares or 100 acres. That's plenty of space.

Secondly, the $35 million is a separate expense from the $85 million.

yes like the velodrome on citidel hill which would be on land the HRM does not own and will never because it is a national historic park we have these neive dreamers who cant even put a proper plan together let alone deal with political realities of a tory minority government looking at a metro area with no chance that they will win a single seat in that area. If we were looking at a spring election and the liberals by a miracle were to take power the paper shuffle would be too late for the halifax bid.

*rollseyes*

Say MR. X did you know that the provincial minister of energy and resources for nova scotia Mr. Bill Dooks was in Whitehouse two weekends ago pleading with the federal tories to honor the funding commitment of the former liberal government for converting the universities, hospitals and provincial government building to natural gas at a cost of 20 million in the pennisual of halifax???. If the provincial government cant afford that little project how do they think they will fund the 600 million they claim will be the upper limit of funding for the commonwealth games for the provincial share ????

Hardly any information has been released on the bid plan, as with the two other bids. At this point of the bid race, the 2010 Olympic bid cities did not release any detailed information either nor did the 2012 Olympic and 2010 Commonwealth bid races.....nor have the 2014 Olympic bid cities. The 50-50 government share of the 2010 Olympic bid was not announced until after the bid book was released.

This event has the potential to spur economic growth in Nova Scotia, and that is simply the fact.

Of course you already knew that didnt you MR. X.
LOL

Actually, I did. And of course, you can never ever get your facts right.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Haligonian

Obviously Jim should take his amazing new discovery to the bid committee immediately.

Jim, if Shannon Park was too small, don't you think someone would've noticed by now?!

[Jonestowncultinpicto]

Originally Posted by Penhorn

Jim, if Shannon Park was too small, don't you think someone would've noticed by now?!

Yes and it is a red herring I threw into the trend. But really who knows because I know Geoff reagan your friendly neighboorhood liberal MP has state he does not what shannon park elementary school torn down for the commonwealth games . Seems to me that decreases the area by a bit.

Thing is you must admit the outdoor velodrome thing is totally stupid of a committee to forward after all the spec for holding a commonwealth games is to have an indoor velodrome with baltic birch broads as the track surface. Victoria cant even host the track cycling as it stands right now as it is outdoor , concrete and 333 metres long. The spec now for competition is indoors 250 metres long and baltic birch wood. that raises the cost to about 50 million.

The thing is if the people involved had some brains they could pull the games off with less cost . First Aquatic centre in shannon park GONE. Yuo get one of those porta pools they are using in melbourne next year for the fina world aquatics championships and put it in the dartmouth sports plex . the community pool you convert into a the diving pool.

A temporary velodrome surface could be constructed now and stored for a new aircraft hanger at the international airport. A temporary veldrome is what the Atlanta Games in 1996 had.

There are all kinds of creative ways the problem for halifax and canada in general is we get jerked around by the europeans time and time again .
nothing will change in hlaifax and it would actually be worse because of the eagarness of the local lobbists to be great hosts.
it is the nova scotian way.

jim jones

[Penhorn]

Originally Posted by Jonestowncultinpicto

Yes and it is a red herring I threw into the trend. But really who knows because I know Geoff reagan your friendly neighboorhood liberal MP has state he does not what shannon park elementary school torn down for the commonwealth games . Seems to me that decreases the area by a bit.

Thing is you must admit the outdoor velodrome thing is totally stupid of a committee to forward after all the spec for holding a commonwealth games is to have an indoor velodrome with baltic birch broads as the track surface. Victoria cant even host the track cycling as it stands right now as it is outdoor , concrete and 333 metres long. The spec now for competition is indoors 250 metres long and baltic birch wood. that raises the cost to about 50 million.

The thing is if the people involved had some brains they could pull the games off with less cost . First Aquatic centre in shannon park GONE. Yuo get one of those porta pools they are using in melbourne next year for the fina world aquatics championships and put it in the dartmouth sports plex . the community pool you convert into a the diving pool.

A temporary velodrome surface could be constructed now and stored for a new aircraft hanger at the international airport. A temporary veldrome is what the Atlanta Games in 1996 had.

There are all kinds of creative ways the problem for halifax and canada in general is we get jerked around by the europeans time and time again .
nothing will change in hlaifax and it would actually be worse because of the eagarness of the local lobbists to be great hosts.
it is the nova scotian way.

jim jones

Weeelll, I agree with you there that they could be spending their money better when it comes to certain things (or saving it, for that matter). Although I don't think they'll have trouble finding uses for these additional facilities if they're built.

[Jonestowncultinpicto]

This event has the potential to spur economic growth in Nova Scotia, and that is simply the fact.

Please I cant beleive you actually said that at you related to Rodney Macdonald????

We would just be peeing away the gas royalites on a 10 day circus followed by a cfl team that would be subsidized. I know you people in western canada love to subsidize your football teams so continue on to do so while we go to Loudon New Hampshire in droves and see a sport you could only wish you could see in the northwest . NASCAR racing LOL.

Aw the things we do for entertainment here on the east coast are so different and less expensive to the ordinary taxpayers who are snapping those rolling stones tickets in droves on the show on the commons Sept Sept Sept 23rd

Did i say Sept sept sept 23rd the rolling stones play halifax LOL.

jim jones

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Penhorn

Weeelll, I agree with you there that they could be spending their money better when it comes to certain things (or saving it, for that matter). Although I don't think they'll have trouble finding uses for these additional facilities if they're built.

I agree as well.

Anyway, like I've said before....if they're building new venues, the majority of the seating should be temporary to lower costs. Commonwealth Stadium should be designed as either:

1) a track & field with 35,000 temporary seats. cost: $15-30 million

2) a 35,000 seat stadium with partial permanent seating and partial permanent seating. for example, a 35,000 seat stadium consisting of 15,000 temporary seats and 20,000 permanent seats....cost: $80-120 million

3) a 35,000 permanent seat stadium with the capability to be expanded to 50,000 for events like the Grey Cup. cost: $150-200 million

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Jonestowncultinpicto

This event has the potential to spur economic growth in Nova Scotia, and that is simply the fact.

Please I cant beleive you actually said that at you related to Rodney Macdonald????

We would just be peeing away the gas royalites on a 10 day circus followed by a cfl team that would be subsidized. I know you people in western canada love to subsidize your football teams so continue on to do so while we go to Loudon New Hampshire in droves and see a sport you could only wish you could see in the northwest . NASCAR racing LOL.

Aw the things we do for entertainment here on the east coast are so different and less expensive to the ordinary taxpayers who are snapping those rolling stones tickets in droves on the show on the commons Sept Sept Sept 23rd

Did i say Sept sept sept 23rd the rolling stones play halifax LOL.

jim jones

I think nearly all Haligonians here would agree with the statement that "The 2014 Commonwealth Games has the potential to spur economic growth in Nova Scotia."


NASCAR racing.....hundreds and hundreds of kilometres away........wow. Is that your argument? Not only that, this attraction is in the United States......geez, no wonder tourism business is going down here in Canada. Nova Scotians, or rather just yourself, must be so proud to have a NASCAR racecourse outside of their country. It's like saying Vancouverites are proud of having Disneyland in California.



The Rolling Stones.....also performing at Vancouver and Regina........and more than two dozen other cities in North America. Wow....that's like....so unique.

[Jonestowncultinpicto]

Originally Posted by mr.x

I agree as well.

Anyway, like I've said before....if they're building new venues, the majority of the seating should be temporary to lower costs. Commonwealth Stadium should be designed as either:

1) a track & field with 35,000 temporary seats. cost: $15-30 million

2) a 35,000 seat stadium with partial permanent seating and partial permanent seating. for example, a 35,000 seat stadium consisting of 15,000 temporary seats and 20,000 permanent seats....cost: $80-120 million

3) a 35,000 permanent seat stadium with the capability to be expanded to 50,000 for events like the Grey Cup. cost: $150-200 million

thing is we are not the people who decide this it is the european sports federations that do TOTALLY. you dont play their games and they threaten to pull the games.
To me the best economic choice is to pass on the commonwealth games and deal with the needs of the people who live in the city and province 24 7 365
not some spoiled athletes from other countries who are here for 20 day in 2014.

there is nothing temporary about the commonwealth games since kuala lumpar. And considering the facilities in abuja
http://www.fussballtempel.net/caf/NGR/Abuja.html
there is not going to be a temporary solution voted for .

These current venues in The Hrm are in debt now to the tune of 15 million and that does not include the debt of the trade centre and exhibtion park company.
The problem is with halifax is they think they have a need and then dont tear down the old building like was the case with the halifax forum. You then have two buildings for two purposes that the forum would take care of. The atlantic winter fair and ice hockey with a capacity for a crowd of 5000 and up. You have the metro centre , exhibition park and the Halifax forum all competting with each other to this day nearly 30 years after the opening of the metro centre.

Remember with your first proposal you are not really leaving room for the track and field surface which was 18 million AU dollars in melbourne and was installed by a company from italy.
So with all these european companies doing work as olympic preferred contractors wheres the economic benefit for the taxpayer companies in Halfiax , nova scotia or canada for that mattter???
The velodrome was a german company final velodrome and melbourne had opened a brand new ron webb velodrome two years after being awarded the games. Ron Webb is australianand certainly has the resume to satisfy the IOC in athens but somehow in a rush a new velodrome had to be constructed in 2002 two year after the opening of the vodafone arena.

jim jones

[Jonestowncultinpicto]

I think nova soctians would agree your Anchor Idea for the CFL football team is great and would be the symbolism of what a commonwealth games would do to nova scotia for the next 30 years.
You see we live closer to montreal then you do and can remember that whole kettle of fish . That is why the support numbers went south by 16 points the last time a pole was taken on the commonwealth games. The committee knows not to conduct a pole again because it will probably be below 50 percent since the last poll was only the beginning of the opposition getting the facts out and the vale of secrecy became a public ploicy on the issue .
The question has been on the hotline shows "show me the money , show me the costs , show me what is involved for our grand kids to have their futures morgaged for a couple of sport pyramids.

jim jones