daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 17th, 2010, 07:10 PM   #4381
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,143
Likes (Received): 1723

Quote:

Large roads or faceless buildings with no single shopfront in sight - nowhere to even buy an icecream or 枣泥糕 or post a letter. Roads are so wide they completely segregate the two sides. In the case of the 3-super-tower area it'd be large roads AND faceless buildings.

The 3 towers are absolutely great - but they need quality street-level design to truly come alive.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 17th, 2010, 07:17 PM   #4382
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,143
Likes (Received): 1723

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peloso View Post
So do you want them to be saturated? ... Quite on the contrary.
You make the walking environment more pleasant, and crossing of roads more easily, which could mean a more varied screetscape and more frequent crossing points or narrower roads.

Roads should be no wider than the minimum they need to be (like across the river). You get people OUT of their cars and NEVER attempt to make their car journeys easier, in an urban setting.

Quote:
What's a "street-scene"? Bars? Magazines? Do you realize the whole of the area is still a construction site? It's only normal it cannot be a pleasant place to relax yet.He meant the area between the really big towers.
Just look at the render of the masterplan, are there any buildings or streetscene of human scale? IMO the spaces in between the 3 towers should, instead of motorways and huge dead spaces, be filled with low-rises with shops and amenities opening onto human-sized roads.

The areas that are finished long ago (northwest of Oriental Hospital for example) are also dead as a doornail.

Here's the masterplan I'm talking about:

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2010, 07:37 PM   #4383
RodrigoDuran
Registered User
 
RodrigoDuran's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San francisco , Vacavile ,CA95687 //EL SALVADOR -SAN SALVADOR -San luis
Posts: 421
Likes (Received): 4

it seen a beutiful city !
__________________
One Of The Best Mayors in San Salvador NORMAN QUIJANO, we support you !! Viva El Salvador

Highcliff liked this post
RodrigoDuran no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2010, 07:39 PM   #4384
Langur
Londinium langur
 
Langur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Posts: 9,390
Likes (Received): 1640

@NCT
I agree. Pudong looks good from afar, at least by night, but it simply doesn't work at street level. It's a wasted opportunity. However Puxi does have good streets, so it kind of doesn't matter for the city as a whole.
__________________
"Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste; look well to each step; and from the beginning think what may be the end." Edward Whymper

Highcliff liked this post
Langur no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2010, 11:51 PM   #4385
Vanzetti
go away
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 115
Likes (Received): 8

Who exactly is going to shop on the street-level of Business district? The people who work in the towers? At launch break?
__________________
Buildings are like clothes. People live in them. Without people, they have no meaning. We have ancient clothes in museums, but the idea that all old clothes should be preserved is absurd.

Highcliff liked this post
Vanzetti no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 05:08 AM   #4386
foxmulder
Registered User
 
foxmulder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Likes (Received): 381

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
You make the walking environment more pleasant, and crossing of roads more easily, which could mean a more varied screetscape and more frequent crossing points or narrower roads.

Roads should be no wider than the minimum they need to be (like across the river). You get people OUT of their cars and NEVER attempt to make their car journeys easier, in an urban setting.



Just look at the render of the masterplan, are there any buildings or streetscene of human scale? IMO the spaces in between the 3 towers should, instead of motorways and huge dead spaces, be filled with low-rises with shops and amenities opening onto human-sized roads.

The areas that are finished long ago (northwest of Oriental Hospital for example) are also dead as a doornail.

Here's the masterplan I'm talking about:

You are talking about a very radical change on master plan. More buildings will choke the place. This has been discussed before. I prefer large roads, squares, parks over what you are describing (basically Manhattan or Puxi).

Moreover, after all that construction finished, Pudong will have a lot of places to spend time and shop.

I am satisfied with current master plan.

Building high rises between these three master pieces will ruin the place.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
foxmulder no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 06:26 AM   #4387
Ewan117
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 267
Likes (Received): 18

i think the towers themselves have shops and food outlets, so there really isn't a need to do the small cramped shops like puxi or any other non spread out citiy. Also when construction extends inwards and not just around the park, i think that the buildings won't be as far from each other and that, maybe 'shops' might start to exist.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Ewan117 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 06:46 AM   #4388
italiano_pellicano
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles , US / Cancun , MX
Posts: 16,688
Likes (Received): 2010

this project is amazing
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
italiano_pellicano no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 08:01 AM   #4389
staff
囧!
 
staff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hong Kong | Singapore | Melbourne | Malm÷ | Copenhagen | Shanghai
Posts: 10,830
Likes (Received): 717

This has been explained countless times. Lujiazui is not meant to have street level retail and sidewalks overcrowded with people. Other than purely an attraction meant to be seen from afar (mainly the Bund) it is purely a business district district and is supposed to function as such. The need for retail is fulfilled by shops and restaurants inside the towers. Other retail needs are fulfilled by the remaining 98% of Shanghai, which is ultra-urban, dense and walkable.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
staff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 08:03 AM   #4390
WhiteMagick
Moderator - Επιτηρητής
 
WhiteMagick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,089

Quote:
Originally Posted by magical_bb View Post
image hosted on flickr
__________________
Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。

Highcliff liked this post
WhiteMagick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 08:58 AM   #4391
HJ
Registered User
 
HJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 56
Likes (Received): 6

Does someone know on witch rooftop this photo has been taken?
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
HJ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 08:59 AM   #4392
HJ
Registered User
 
HJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 56
Likes (Received): 6

Does someone know on witch rooftop this photo has been taken?


Quote:
Originally Posted by magical_bb View Post
image hosted on flickr
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
HJ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 09:06 AM   #4393
GreenMonk108
The Unusual Suspect
 
GreenMonk108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 221
Likes (Received): 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
@NCT
I agree. Pudong looks good from afar, at least by night, but it simply doesn't work at street level. It's a wasted opportunity. However Puxi does have good streets, so it kind of doesn't matter for the city as a whole.
yah, it is true. My friend, she is a resident in Shanghai. She simply like Puxi better because of good streets level.
However, I think Pudong is new area or still under developing place. In time, it will build up with vendors.
__________________
[SIZE="2"]SIZE]

Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by GreenMonk108; June 18th, 2010 at 09:15 AM.
GreenMonk108 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 09:33 AM   #4394
mibome
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 155
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by HJ View Post
Does someone know on witch rooftop this photo has been taken?
I think the photo has been taken from the top floor of the Meridien hotel. There is a bar that is open to the public. It is the left building in this photo:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/DSCF3689.jpg

The building to the right, with the disk-like top is another hotel, the Radisson Shanghai New World. The disk-shaped top floor hosts a bar, too, and it is revolving.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
mibome no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #4395
NCT
Not Cwite There
 
NCT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham
Posts: 6,143
Likes (Received): 1723

Quote:
Originally Posted by staff View Post
This has been explained countless times. Lujiazui is not meant to have street level retail and sidewalks overcrowded with people. Other than purely an attraction meant to be seen from afar (mainly the Bund) it is purely a business district district and is supposed to function as such. The need for retail is fulfilled by shops and restaurants inside the towers. Other retail needs are fulfilled by the remaining 98% of Shanghai, which is ultra-urban, dense and walkable.
This might be true as a planning rationale, but I think this rationale needs to be vigorously questioned. It's creating an environment that obviously requires people to take public transport (due to the extremely high raw density) but where people are put off using it (it's simply too pedestrian hostile) - and that's a really messy situation to be in.

And why should a business district be without retail? The most successful centres, in terms of both functionality and atmosphere, are mix-use centres. People want to use it, they want to use public transport, they like going there and being there. There have been plenty of articles (most of which being Chinese) that critise Lujiazui's sterility it being a ghost town at night, and a lot of people do feel that way too.

The fact is Lujiazui is not really without retail - there are plenty of shops within the towers (albeit all high-end) as well as the Super Brand Mall. The problem is too little is on street-level to foster a sense of belonging and public transport mentality. Good urban atmosphere doesn't equate crowdedness either. Adding lower-end street-level retail that primarily serves office workers on lunch break or passing commuters will not make the streets much more crowded but will go a long way in making the experience all the more enjoyable.

Segragational planning fundamentally goes against a harmonious society and better city, better life.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
NCT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #4396
VRS
Registered User
 
VRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jakarta
Posts: 46,751
Likes (Received): 11519

very wonderfull panorama of shanghai...
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
VRS no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 12:30 PM   #4397
HJ
Registered User
 
HJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 56
Likes (Received): 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by mibome View Post
I think the photo has been taken from the top floor of the Meridien hotel. There is a bar that is open to the public. It is the left building in this photo:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/a...1/DSCF3689.jpg

The building to the right, with the disk-like top is another hotel, the Radisson Shanghai New World. The disk-shaped top floor hosts a bar, too, and it is revolving.
Thanks !
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
HJ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 06:54 PM   #4398
Wuhy_9
Registered User
 
Wuhy_9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: China
Posts: 123
Likes (Received): 20

6/17

I went up to the observation deck of Jinmao Tower yesterday, I thought that would be a perfect place to observe Shanghai tower site. But seems I was wrong, I can only see part of the construction site from there.


[IMG]http://i47.************/i6b5w3.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i50.************/r04dad.jpg[/IMG]

a little blur
[IMG]http://i48.************/2iuokf4.jpg[/IMG]
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Wuhy_9 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 06:56 PM   #4399
CoCoMilk
Registered User
 
CoCoMilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,578
Likes (Received): 1131

Nice update..Thank you!!
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
CoCoMilk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2010, 07:12 PM   #4400
yangkhm
Registered User
 
yangkhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 920
Likes (Received): 172

wow, what is this?
__________________
Peace in your mind, Peace in the world!
http://www.pelnee.blogspot.com

Romantic Music

Highcliff liked this post
yangkhm no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
china, gensler, hypertall, lujiazui financial center, pudong, pudong new area, shanghai, shanghai center, supertall

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu