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Old March 5th, 2011, 08:10 AM   #6421
Nordschleife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoCoMilk View Post
urg...why not 64 floor
The lower levels always takes longer, 50th floor looks fine to me. This tower is gonna top out by the end of 2012 anyway.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 10:27 AM   #6422
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They are laying those orange steel bars in a circle shape on the ground floor i swear to god that is significant and represents where the outer glass cladding will be placed.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 10:35 AM   #6423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post
The lower levels always takes longer, 50th floor looks fine to me. This tower is gonna top out by the end of 2012 anyway.
That would be quick anyway, over 1 floor per week.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #6424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kix111 View Post
They are laying those orange steel bars in a circle shape on the ground floor i swear to god that is significant and represents where the outer glass cladding will be placed.
These steel box girders overlap with the beams to support the floorslab of the ground level. Maybe they are used to disperse the weight, so you can put something superheavy (like the supercolumns), or dirve a crawler crane on it in stead of right on the the floorslab. You know, the slab itself are not that strong. When it comes to the outer layer, I think we've discussed adout it before, the widest part of this tower is 95m, but the circle you see is 121m in diameter, so by no means it is related to the outer layer.
It's only a guess though, and apologize for my english.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 03:13 PM   #6425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post
The lower levels always takes longer, 50th floor looks fine to me. This tower is gonna top out by the end of 2012 anyway.
Really? That would be awesome. This construction is so much more exciting to me than the Burj Khalifa ever was, and so is its city environment.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 04:49 PM   #6426
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I thought it was completed

I'm pretty sure I have seen a picture of that building, but I was wrong.

Looks nice, imho the second best skyscraper design in shanghai after the financial center.

the thing that ruins shangai skyline is the ball sckyscraper, I hate it!
Cover it with other higher skyscrapers.
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Old March 5th, 2011, 11:11 PM   #6427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post
These steel box girders overlap with the beams to support the floorslab of the ground level. Maybe they are used to disperse the weight, so you can put something superheavy (like the supercolumns), or dirve a crawler crane on it in stead of right on the the floorslab. You know, the slab itself are not that strong. When it comes to the outer layer, I think we've discussed adout it before, the widest part of this tower is 95m, but the circle you see is 121m in diameter, so by no means it is related to the outer layer.
It's only a guess though, and apologize for my english.
That crawler crane to the left is already sitting on another huge piece of metal bar, which is actually placed on top of the orange beams. If their only intension is to disperse the weight of the crawler crane would they have to place the orange beams so carefully in a circle?
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Old March 6th, 2011, 03:34 AM   #6428
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Hi all.

Here is a rough estimation of where the outer edge of the structure will be relating to the North side.

Here is a screenshot from Google Earth showing the Jin Mao site is North of the site for this project - see the top right corner.
The core of the structure is set fairly square to the world. (The square we see in the bottom of the hole is not the core. I'm going by later shots that show the core is square with the 4 platforms that jut into the hole)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

First, on the North side the 5 level high podium is only a few meters farther out than the edge of the building would be without a podium - 5 meters ?
See this render - the top is the North side.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Second, one of the rounded triangular points of the outer edge faces North - see the direction indicator on the right side.
The top of the drawing is the North side.
Notice the outer edge will be slightly less distance from the outside of the 2 megacolumns than the distance from the core to the inside of the megacolumns. This is level 9 so the 2 distances may be fairly equal on the ground level.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Now the shot from Cityrain taken from the North side - the bottom of the shot is the North side.
The outer edge on the North side will be close to the bottom of this shot.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Hi Kix.

Here is a very crude attempt to show where the outer edge is on the North side for the main structure and the podium.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The steel you refer to isn't where the edge will be. I do agree though - they put it there in that circular configuration for a reason - not sure what that is though.


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Old March 6th, 2011, 03:59 AM   #6429
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You folks have to remember that China has been going through a very fast paced industrial revolution the past 2 decades. America and much of Europe were every bit as bad, if not worse, concerning air pollution during their industrial revolutions around the turn of the 20th century.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 05:17 AM   #6430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kix111 View Post
That crawler crane to the left is already sitting on another huge piece of metal bar, which is actually placed on top of the orange beams. If their only intension is to disperse the weight of the crawler crane would they have to place the orange beams so carefully in a circle?
Hi, kix, I think this pic can tell you why.
image hosted on flickr

When they began to lay these orange girders, other part of the ground level hasn't been finished yet, so the only thing they can do is lay them carefully in the circle.
A lot of steel structure of this tower is designed to maximum the capacity of these tower cranes. That means, they weigh 100t or nearly 100t. At this weight the swinging radius of the crane is highly limited, so the only place they can stack the structures is inside the circle. For this reason they may consider that the original box girder circle is enough and didn't expand it after the completion of the entire ground-level floorslab.
Still, it's only a guess, but I couldn't figure out any other possible explanations. Anybody know the truth? Help.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 07:25 AM   #6431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury View Post
The steel you refer to isn't where the edge will be. I do agree though - they put it there in that circular configuration for a reason - not sure what that is though.


Ray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post
When they began to lay these orange girders, other part of the ground level hasn't been finished yet, so the only thing they can do is lay them carefully in the circle.
A lot of steel structure of this tower is designed to maximum the capacity of these tower cranes. That means, they weigh 100t or nearly 100t. At this weight the swinging radius of the crane is highly limited, so the only place they can stack the structures is inside the circle. For this reason they may consider that the original box girder circle is enough and didn't expand it after the completion of the entire ground-level floorslab.
Still, it's only a guess, but I couldn't figure out any other possible explanations. Anybody know the truth? Help.
Nordschleife, your guess is as exactly as i thought.

Logistic planning is the primary reason for these orange steel girders to be in placed first. these r meant for temporary support for the two Liebherr 1300 crawler cranes to move around (weight about 300ton each) in two locations.

bearing in mind the basement carpark podium surrounding the completed inner circle is still under construction with top down method, where digging work below grade slab is in progress. so, structurally the outer circle ll be limited to light storage/work and only the inner circle area can allow heavy materials storage.

due to tower crane limited hoisting capability outside the inner circle, the heavy supercolumn beams and trusses hv to be transfered piece by piece by crawler crane into the inner circle for further assembly into a complete supercolumn set before launching by tower crane.


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Old March 6th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #6432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Foong View Post

Logistic planning is the primary reason for these orange steel girders to be in placed first. these r meant for temporary support for the two Liebherr 1300 crawler cranes to move around (weight about 300ton each) in two locations.

bearing in mind the basement carpark podium surrounding the completed inner circle is still under construction with top down method, where digging work below grade slab is in progress. so, structurally the outer circle ll be limited to light storage/work and only the inner circle area can allow heavy materials storage.

due to tower crane limited hoisting capability outside the inner circle, the heavy supercolumn beams and trusses hv to be transfered piece by piece by crawler crane into the inner circle for further assembly into a complete supercolumn set before launching by tower crane.


Hi James, thanks for your explanation, very professional.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 09:13 AM   #6433
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Thank you Fury and James and Nordschleife for the explanation. I made a fundamental mistake, i thought the shape of the tower top down is a circle, but it is actually triangular.

After Fury's explanation i think it is very possible for the three corners of the rounded triangle of the outer layers to be just fitted inside the inner circle. Something like this maybe?


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Old March 6th, 2011, 09:40 PM   #6434
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Hi all.

Hi James.
Great explanation man. I posted many pages back they must be doing a top down proceedure outside the circle. The drawings we have do show the 5 lower levels extend well past the circle. I commented on the seemingly strange method here of digging the hole, doing a conventional method of bottom up, then later, doing a top down outside the circle. Your thoughts on the lack of floorplate strength on the top down areas puts the entire construction strategy in a new light - thanks.

Hi Kix.
You mean like this ?

Overlay done by Patrykus a while ago.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The plan drawing is actually upside down. The top of it is the North side where as the photo is taken from the North side. Not relevent to the discussion though - the sizes are acurate.


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Last edited by Fury; March 6th, 2011 at 09:45 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 11:29 PM   #6435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury View Post
I commented on the seemingly strange method here of digging the hole, doing a conventional method of bottom up, then later, doing a top down outside the circle. Your thoughts on the lack of floorplate strength on the top down areas puts the entire construction strategy in a new light - thanks.
Hi Fury.

Good to know tht you have sharp observations on everything that happens around the tower and itself. At least it allows us to analyse their overall planning strategy which is rather interesting to note. You did mentioned abt the openings left around the circle, and these r actually temporary for them to excavate out the soil below and logistic purpose. Very common when topdown method is in used.

Another is about the circle itself. They decided to form a circle hole since basically round shape is the most stable and safe to form a deep foundation wall. They were actually building a cofferdam-like with slurry walls surrounding the circle.

And finally, topdown method is difficult to implement on the tower itself due to the difficulty to install large steel plates for the corewall and the supercolumns. Remember these plates were all welded from the bottom up?
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Old March 6th, 2011, 11:36 PM   #6436
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Nice pics...
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Old March 6th, 2011, 11:41 PM   #6437
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I love Shanghai and think it will emerge as one of the five best cities in the world. However, close-up photos (of this area, at least) are disappointing. They reveal isolated magnificent buildings without lively, vibrant streets.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 04:21 AM   #6438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
I love Shanghai and think it will emerge as one of the five best cities in the world. However, close-up photos (of this area, at least) are disappointing. They reveal isolated magnificent buildings without lively, vibrant streets.
This building is being built in the Pudong district, a very new and notoriously pedestrian UNfriendly area. Most of the "real" city is in Puxi (i.e., west of the River), which is more dense than Manhattan in most areas and has incredible street life.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #6439
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On the top



image hosted on flickr

Last edited by Oasis-Bangkok; March 7th, 2011 at 08:12 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 09:36 AM   #6440
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Cityrain
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