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Old March 10th, 2011, 04:18 PM   #6481
Miami High Rise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parsonsnose View Post
This one is special though isn't it. I don't suppose the chinese will let anything stop them from completing it.
I'm not saying they won't finish it, I'm just saying there's no way they will get any part of it, except maybe the front door, open by 2012, like they planned to do. And a 2014 completion date seems unlikely, too. It was obviously delayed a little because site prep was in 2008 and vertical construction didn't begin until 2010.

Still this is definately my new favorite building, apart from the ones that make me money , it's huge and innovative, but not showy with a huge spire or a big sliver like the burj dubai. It's 2000 feet of real space with 128 full floors. China is most definately where it's at right now in terms of world economy and growth. It's amazing that they actually need that kind of space right now and are willing to take they're time and make such a carefully planned, sustainable super scraper, as I don't think it's an overstatement to call it.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 04:27 PM   #6482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami High Rise View Post
I'm not saying they won't finish it, I'm just saying there's no way they will get any part of it, except maybe the front door, open by 2012, like they planned to do. And a 2014 completion date seems unlikely, too. It was obviously delayed a little because site prep was in 2008 and vertical construction didn't begin until 2010.

Still this is definately my new favorite building, apart from the ones that make me money , it's huge and innovative, but not showy with a huge spire or a big sliver like the burj dubai. It's 2000 feet of real space with 128 full floors. China is most definately where it's at right now in terms of world economy and growth. It's amazing that they actually need that kind of space right now and are willing to take they're time and make such a carefully planned, sustainable super scraper, as I don't think it's an overstatement to call it.
It's China man. They build things 3x faster here than in America.

They built a 12 story hotel in one week dude
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Old March 10th, 2011, 04:36 PM   #6483
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Im sure everyone is well aware of how quickly the Chinese build things....what you are definitely not known for is quality. Anyhoo, I like this building a lot, and they can have a partial opening now if they wanted to call it that couldn't they??
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Old March 10th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #6484
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pwned

And yeah I suppose they could, couldn't they. The invested parties could all get together and have a little luncheon there, as long as they don't mind the frequent showers of welding sparks.

I wondered if someone was gonna bring up that modular hotel they built. It's probably falling down by now.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 05:49 PM   #6485
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Old March 10th, 2011, 06:03 PM   #6486
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Double post. Anyway I hope they don't build this too fast. The amount of green space and public space they advertise seems a little optimistic and subject to change. Definately the first thing to go if things get tough.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 06:36 PM   #6487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by In_the_harbor View Post
It's China man. They build things 3x faster here than in America.

They built a 12 story hotel in one week dude
Mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChYiC...eature=related
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Old March 10th, 2011, 07:01 PM   #6488
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Couldn't agree more! With labour being cheaper there too, they can speed up the construction through hiring more workers, unlike the union struggles we see here in NA.

Edit: this was in reply to MontanaGuy, below, but it's put me above lol
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Old March 10th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #6489
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hellrazor650 wrote:
Quote:
Im sure everyone is well aware of how quickly the Chinese build things....what you are definitely not known for is quality.
That might be true of certain inexpensive products they export like toys that have to be recalled but Chinese skyscrapers appear to have been designed and built as good as any other buildings in the world. The Shanghai Tower has the most massive core and columns I've ever seen and they're obviously not cutting any corners to save a little money. It's going to be an incredible engineering acheivement and they deserve credit for all of the advances they've made in recent years. They're also spending far more on infrastructure than America does so I don't think we're in a position to criticize China when our aging bridges and highways are falling apart while they're building high speed rail, new freeways and futuristic buildings like this one.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 09:19 PM   #6490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
hellrazor650 wrote:

That might be true of certain inexpensive products they export like toys that have to be recalled but Chinese skyscrapers appear to have been designed and built as good as any other buildings in the world. The Shanghai Tower has the most massive core and columns I've ever seen and they're obviously not cutting any corners to save a little money. It's going to be an incredible engineering acheivement and they deserve credit for all of the advances they've made in recent years. They're also spending far more on infrastructure than America does so I don't think we're in a position to criticize China when our aging bridges and highways are falling apart while they're building high speed rail, new freeways and futuristic buildings like this one.
That's true. I've never seen a core like this one. It's almost to the point that skyscrapers are running into the same problem they had in the late 1800's, only at well over 100 floors instead of 10-12. The core looks like it's taking up a significant amount of the area on the lower floors in order to support the tower. With it's efficient design, though, I wonder how it's weight compares to say, the Empire State Building. Even if it's not much heavier, it's certainly relatively lighter, it has some serious wind loads to deal with at that height.

Then again, it's aerodynamic exterior is supossed to reduce wind load by 24%. If successful, that is a massive achievement in skyscraper design, a real life reduction of nearly 1/4 the wind load factor. Very impressive building, I'll bet it's a feather compared to older supertalls. The core is massive so far, as we can see, but it has a lot to carry.

Last edited by Miami High Rise; March 10th, 2011 at 09:32 PM.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 10:28 PM   #6491
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Considering the height, with such a large core I'm sure you get equal floor space if as if you were to make it shorter with a smaller core.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 10:38 PM   #6492
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I think there is a misunderstanding here? It is only to be topped out by 2012, not a partial opening?
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Old March 10th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #6493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattToronto View Post
Considering the height, with such a large core I'm sure you get equal floor space if as if you were to make it shorter with a smaller core.
Maybe, who cares? These are luxury buildings. Profitability standards aren't observed from that point of view. More, cheaper = better is pointless when talking about luxury.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 11:02 PM   #6494
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Hi all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami High Rise View Post
Um, yes, i'd like insurance for, exterior window cleaning, up to, a, 128 floors. LOL this is nuts. I just read about this one. Not only is it over 2000 feet it has over 4 million sq feet of space. That's nuts. That's way more than the burj dubai. And what's all this about 1.8 million sq feet below grade. That's even nuttier. How many basement floors does it have?

I only have insurance up to 70 floors, and that's a lot, it was hard to get. Just enough ro cover everything in miami.
Hi Miami.

The BK is 465,000 sq. meters by my info.
This project has 5 lower levels.

Hi Georgist.
Great job on the overlay.

Hi Nord.
Thanks for posting updates almost daily.
As was posted - it's great to 'watch' this thing grow.


Ray.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 11:25 PM   #6495
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speed has nothing to do with the country - speed has something to do with development.
things will change ... even in china - and in several years there wont be a progress in building skyscrapers in china like today... remember the progress of the ESB in new york - it was unbelievable fast!
back to topic:
this will be a very interesting building. i can not say if i am going to like it.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 11:54 PM   #6496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Maybe, who cares? These are luxury buildings. Profitability standards aren't observed from that point of view. More, cheaper = better is pointless when talking about luxury.
I wasn't saying you should, just silencing the critics on the core being too large.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 11:59 PM   #6497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTrueLord View Post
speed has nothing to do with the country - speed has something to do with development.
things will change ... even in china - and in several years there wont be a progress in building skyscrapers in china like today... remember the progress of the ESB in new york - it was unbelievable fast!
back to topic:
this will be a very interesting building. i can not say if i am going to like it.
Well, speed does have something to do with the country. See, you're leaving out time in your statement. Back then, labor here was something on the order of labor in China today. With all the red tape and politics I don't think we could even compare to China in megaprojects, although granted, I do admit China is having their little moment in the sun right now and it will end.

Here in miami, traffic is bad because we have like two actual expressways. There have been tons proposed but they never ever leave the drawing board because a few residents resist them. In China when they need something they just do it-now to change my diction- instead of being pussies.

I'm not being a critic I really like this building, in fact I'm being more realistically supportive by saying that this building is not just a vanity fair. In China they actually need this kind of space, and I think it's great. Just being wary and hopeful that this isn't the end for height and economic viability. According to a children's book (Skyscrapers, From the Ground Up, 2004), I read while waiting at the library, it is entirely possible in terms of engineering to build "much, much taller skyscrapers" than we have now. It fails to reference economics, however.

Last edited by Miami High Rise; March 11th, 2011 at 12:10 AM.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 06:22 AM   #6498
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in re: speed and building standards

this thing is a custom-made masterpiece. They have only the most skilled engineers and workers building this thing. It's not like the new 20-story apartment that collapsed upon completion---this thing is built to last. Unfortunately you can't say the same for most buildings in China.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 07:11 AM   #6499
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Let's hope the materials use for the building are up to standard. If not, when this kind of tall building is hit in a highly dense city like SHANGHAI it will spell a doom rather create a disaster. I am sorry to use the term doom.I hope to see the Chinese standard of quality improves for the benefit of the people.

I think it is a pretty nice looking building.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 08:22 AM   #6500
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from the the official blog of Shanghai Center

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