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Old September 30th, 2011, 01:42 AM   #8721
azn_man12345
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Yeah, the first truss belt took several weeks to complete. It was almost annoying actually XD
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Old September 30th, 2011, 04:40 PM   #8722
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Burj Khalifa may be taller but somehow this one appeals to me more as the greatest skyscraper of our times.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 04:46 PM   #8723
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Looks like those cranes are ready to do another jump.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 08:52 PM   #8724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
Burj Khalifa may be taller but somehow this one appeals to me more as the greatest skyscraper of our times.
I agree with you, I said the same to "Fury". Though he still believes the burj is better, as he has every right to do. I must add, he also knows an awful lot more about tall buildings than I do....though I still say this one is the best.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 10:40 PM   #8725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krkseg1ops View Post
Burj Khalifa may be taller but somehow this one appeals to me more as the greatest skyscraper of our times.
It will be like with the SWFC. You will stand between the 3 giants but both, despite taller, will not impress you as much as Jin Mao.
ST will not change that.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 11:44 PM   #8726
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I think all three are equally impressive. They are too different to be compared, even though they are next to each other.

Jin Mao Tower is impressive because of it's striking design paying obvious homage to China's long and great past.
Shanghai World Financial Center is impressive because of it's geometries, never looking quite the same from any angle and it's hole it the top.
Shanghai Tower is impressive because of it's sheer height and it's interesting design, including (among other things) the v-notch, the double facade, the crown, and the little rectangular "hole" (I don't know what the technical term is) on all three faces paying homage to it's brother, SWFC.


By the way, when people refer to these towers as the Three Brothers, is Jin Mao the oldest, or the youngest? Lol.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 11:47 PM   #8727
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Oldest, because old people shrink
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Old October 1st, 2011, 01:30 AM   #8728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staff View Post
Well, to be fair, Manhattan (and the other truly urban parts of NYC) only constitute a fairly small area of the entire New York urban agglomeration, which is the largest in the world-- and predominately suburban.

Lujiazui on the other hand constitute perhaps 0.5% of Shanghai, the rest of which is extremely urban. Everywhere.

So if one is to look anywhere for "how it is done"-- one should probably look at Shanghai rather than NYC. And to be honest, I'm OK with Lujiazui not being optimal in terms of urbanity when it has some of the tallest and most amazing skyscrapers anywhere on the planet.
It's ok to say that now, when these scrapers are cutting edge and novel. What about in 30-40 years time, when such forms are ubiquitous around China and elsewhere in the world? (In the next 30 to 40 years we will see similar buildings going up as new ways of designing and building are explored)
Then the lack of good urban planning will come back to haunt Shanghai and people won't be so forgiving of the hostile environment at street level. They will look back and bemoan their lack of foresight. In the end, it is the ground experience that matters most, not the view from afar. A good ground experience will last the test of time, shiny ostentatious status symbols do not make an area great on their own.

I myself like parks and spread out buildings in some areas if they are done right, but the large highways and lack of activities on the street level does not please me.

Regarding NYC. You can't compare, as people in the US like living in SF homes, not apartments. It is a cultural thing. Some people do not like miles of miles of ugly and soul destroying concrete apartments, and some don't like miles of spirit killing boring sprawling suburbs. To each his own.

Last edited by aquablue; October 1st, 2011 at 01:40 AM.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 02:09 AM   #8729
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Then the lack of good urban planning will come back to haunt Shanghai and people won't be so forgiving of the hostile environment at street level. They will look back and bemoan their lack of foresight
I always get a kick out of lines like this. Lujiazui isn't poorly planned. It's half-finished. People said similar things about Tianhe in Guangzhou and Futian in Shenzhen when they were first built. Stuff about half-empty streets. The counter to these claims was: one, they were incomplete, and two, the complaints were based around aesthetics. When Lujiazui is finished its workers and residents will still disproportionately use transit and will have pedestrian access.

If you're going to complain about a lousy urban environment, look to low density single family subdivisions that are slickly marketed, but in reality are just designed to maximize developer return on investment, and are wholly car-dependent. Give it another thirty or forty years, and those aesthetically pleasing low density single family districts will still be car dependent and their sidewalks will still be mostly empty.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 05:33 AM   #8730
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Hi all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsonsnose View Post
I agree with you, I said the same to "Fury". Though he still believes the burj is better, as he has every right to do. I must add, he also knows an awful lot more about tall buildings than I do....though I still say this one is the best.
Hi Parsons.
Thanks.
Let me say my sig reflects my opinion of the BK as the first free standing structure to overtake guyed masts in decades, allowing for the taller structures yet to come.

I think it is a great design by a great architect. Although it is my favorite, I have never said it is better than any other structure.

The ST is a great project with a great design. It is definitely my fave U/C project right now - of the more than a dozen I follow closely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azn_man12345 View Post
I think all three are equally impressive. They are too different to be compared, even though they are next to each other.

Jin Mao Tower is impressive because of it's striking design paying obvious homage to China's long and great past.
Shanghai World Financial Center is impressive because of it's geometries, never looking quite the same from any angle and it's hole it the top.
Shanghai Tower is impressive because of it's sheer height and it's interesting design, including (among other things) the v-notch, the double facade, the crown, and the little rectangular "hole" (I don't know what the technical term is) on all three faces paying homage to it's brother, SWFC.


By the way, when people refer to these towers as the Three Brothers, is Jin Mao the oldest, or the youngest? Lol.
Hi Anz.
Well said man. Bravo.


Ray.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 06:05 AM   #8731
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^Thank you
But one thing: *Azn, not Anz
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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:18 AM   #8732
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By Joyce强

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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:31 AM   #8733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
It's ok to say that now, when these scrapers are cutting edge and novel. What about in 30-40 years time, when such forms are ubiquitous around China and elsewhere in the world? (In the next 30 to 40 years we will see similar buildings going up as new ways of designing and building are explored)
These scrapers are today's equivalents of what Chrysler Building and Empire State Building were of their time. In 30-40 years another prevailing style will dominate and I am sure that style will be built in both the US and in China-- but we will probably see another country booming with cutting edge highrises like the US did in the first half of the 20th century, and that China is doing today.

Quote:
Then the lack of good urban planning will come back to haunt Shanghai and people won't be so forgiving of the hostile environment at street level. They will look back and bemoan their lack of foresight. In the end, it is the ground experience that matters most, not the view from afar. A good ground experience will last the test of time, shiny ostentatious status symbols do not make an area great on their own.
I can quote particlez post here, but please realise that Shanghai, as a whole, is very well planned and compact for its size. Lujiazui isn't in any way representable for the city as a whole. And to be honest, living in Shanghai with its fast-paced way of life, millions upon millions of people on the sidewalks, streets, subway escalators, smells and sounds everywhere etc., Lujiazui is a pretty nice break from all that. It is fairly calm and offers some of the most spectacular views (for skyscraper enthusiasts) anywhere on the planet.

Quote:
I myself like parks and spread out buildings in some areas if they are done right, but the large highways and lack of activities on the street level does not please
Mind you, while Lujiazui may not be extremely vibrant, I can say that it has more people on its streets than most American cities' CBDs do, during most times of the day. And if you think Lujiazui is too calm, Puxi is a 3 minute metro ride away with some of the most crowded and busy streets on the planet.

Quote:
Regarding NYC. You can't compare, as people in the US like living in SF homes, not apartments. It is a cultural thing. Some people do not like miles of miles of ugly and soul destroying concrete apartments, and some don't like miles of spirit killing boring sprawling suburbs. To each his own.
So Lujiazui (tiny fraction of Shanghai's urban area) is objectively 'poor planning' while the sprawlburbs of NYC and elsewhere in the US is okay because "each to his own"? Shanghai is, in general, much better planned and more sustainable than New York is. Sure, the office buildings in tiny Lujiazui may not meet the streets in an optimal way, but accusing Shanghai of poor planning certainly isn't fair when the vast majority of the city is extremely urban, vibrant, walkable and lively.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 12:06 PM   #8734
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This is an amazing building. I would love to see more of such amazing buildings. There is a video on YouTube about some Chinese company building a 15 storied building in just 6 days. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogQRjGGxkZQ
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Old October 1st, 2011, 12:31 PM   #8735
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cranes are moving up fast! soon once the tower reaches 400+ its gonna get hard to get good pics of the tower
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Old October 1st, 2011, 02:42 PM   #8736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
It's ok to say that now, when these scrapers are cutting edge and novel. What about in 30-40 years time, when such forms are ubiquitous around China and elsewhere in the world? (In the next 30 to 40 years we will see similar buildings going up as new ways of designing and building are explored)
Then the lack of good urban planning will come back to haunt Shanghai and people won't be so forgiving of the hostile environment at street level. They will look back and bemoan their lack of foresight. In the end, it is the ground experience that matters most, not the view from afar. A good ground experience will last the test of time, shiny ostentatious status symbols do not make an area great on their own.

I myself like parks and spread out buildings in some areas if they are done right, but the large highways and lack of activities on the street level does not please me.
I agree with most of this. my theory is that the goverment officials and planners etc... really just want to build higher and bigger to impress and build their reputation.

Also, many of these planners and officials see lots of western style streets and areas and think it's more efficient etc... and they end up doing that but widening the streets more, leading to it being more empty and less vibrant.

Of course, I could be completely wrong but thats just my little thought.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 03:36 PM   #8737
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Originally Posted by Fury View Post
Hi all.



Let me say my sig reflects my opinion of the BK as the first free standing structure to overtake guyed masts in decades, allowing for the taller structures yet to come.
This. Hopefully I'm not bringing this convo even more off topic, but the Burj Khalifa stands out simply because it managed to smash every conceivable record, in addition to having an aesthetically pleasing yet pragmatic design.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 03:43 PM   #8738
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Originally Posted by travelworld123 View Post
I agree with most of this. my theory is that the goverment officials and planners etc... really just want to build higher and bigger to impress and build their reputation.

Also, many of these planners and officials see lots of western style streets and areas and think it's more efficient etc... and they end up doing that but widening the streets more, leading to it being more empty and less vibrant.

Of course, I could be completely wrong but thats just my little thought.
Uh...

So half-built Lujiazui is singled out as emblematic of egotistical politicians and inept planners yet you don't see why a very high density area served by public transit will function?

Much of what you're saying is reflective of postmodern planning theory. Unfortunately postmodern planning theory is heavily influenced and promoted by the real estate industry. The real estate industry cares more about maximizing its profit and not about urban functionality as a whole. Thus it heavily stresses aesthetics (narrow streets and historicist streetside facades) while disregarding substantive factors like density, limiting sprawl, and public transit development. The next time anyone cites Lujiazui as emblematic of bad urban planning, think of the 100000X more common suburbia.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 05:12 PM   #8739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
Uh...

So half-built Lujiazui is singled out as emblematic of egotistical politicians and inept planners yet you don't see why a very high density area served by public transit will function?

Much of what you're saying is reflective of postmodern planning theory. Unfortunately postmodern planning theory is heavily influenced and promoted by the real estate industry. The real estate industry cares more about maximizing its profit and not about urban functionality as a whole. Thus it heavily stresses aesthetics (narrow streets and historicist streetside facades) while disregarding substantive factors like density, limiting sprawl, and public transit development. The next time anyone cites Lujiazui as emblematic of bad urban planning, think of the 100000X more common suburbia.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree that suburbia is even worse. The concept of surburbia I'm not sure if it is good/efficient or not, but in my opinion, I'm not a fan of it.

Many other similar areas around China such as the new Guangzhou business area seem empty at the moment as well, and maybe, over time it will be more 'dense' and lively' but if you look at Beijing's Guomao Business area which has been there for a long time in terms of business district/new skyscrapers areas, it still is a very highway-centric, big highrise block, not very pedestrian friendly area. Yes, it may have way more movement of people there now, but it still isn't the very pedestrian friendly, lively shops everywhere feel.
I think it's cars that have first priority, with pedestrians second.

Lujiazui may be half built, but wouldn't it be hard for it to change into more dense with each skyscrapers plot area so large?
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Old October 1st, 2011, 06:53 PM   #8740
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