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Old December 15th, 2011, 03:41 AM   #9381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori

But isn't the real 'center' of Shanghai on the other side of the river? Nanjing Road, Poeple's Square etc.?
Yes.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 04:18 AM   #9382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
But isn't the real 'center' of Shanghai on the other side of the river? Nanjing Road, Poeple's Square etc.?
That area did feel more like the real center....I guess because it is.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 07:06 AM   #9383
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I think the frustration comes from the area looking lively and vibrant from far away yet feels cold and dead up close. I've walked around this area and felt the same disappointment others have felt. You're right, the area is still developing so hopefully they can make the necessary changes to warm this place up a little bit. Then again this is a business district so maybe it's supposed to feel cold, dead and boring. It would be nice to be in the "center" of Shanghai and feel like you're in the center of it all.
Yes, this exactly! I understand the whole argument of it being:

a) a business district hence it's 'supposed' to be desolate and boring
b) it's meant to be practicle (which i disgree)
c) all the underground future planning issues etc

However, who said CBD's can't be places of activity and liveliness? Where did such a 'rule' come from? Look at Hong Kong Island for example. Everywhere were the business buildings are, are full of activity, people, neons, vibrancy. It's such an uplifting atmosphere.
Come to Shanghai Lujiazui, as much as I love the beautiful skyscrapers, the street level is dead. Again, return to NYC, same thing as HK applies. Pretty much most of Manhattan is CBDish and yet, all lively, full of people, dense buildings etc.

I disgree with it being 'practical'. I do see where the argument is coming from though, being planned and everything so the planners actually have been taking into account pedestrian pathways, traffic, etc. But again, I've visited both types of areas and walking through Lujiazui, it did not feel practical at all. It felt the complete opposite. I know it's still developing, but it took so long to walk around one building plot, ended up getting lost, cold from the wind from the river, until we finally reached the SFWC entrance. It felt very pedestrian unfriendly.

The underground issues I probably can't argue against.

Finally, I think someone mentioned above about cities now trying to take the style of the 'bad planning' which I'm assuming you meant dense cities such as London and NY. I completely disagree lol. I think that the Chinese developers are looking up to the western style plans (mainly North American exc. NY) and think that they are 'ideal'. They see the densely packed buildings of say London, HK, NYC as not good, messy, 'bad image' etc. But I believe this is completely wrong. They should look at how practical, convieniant, lively these style cities are.

An example of their mindset - in Shanghai a road called Zhapu Lu. There were many neons and bright lights on this popular street not too long ago (probably few years ago). When I first discovered it I was like 'wow, I didn't know Shanghai had places like this!'. However, to my somehow expected disappointment, the last time I looked, all the beautiful vibrant neons were gone. The city planners or whatever decided to take down these neons as it looked 'messy' and showed a bad imagine (?) to the world in the lead up and during the Shanghai Expo. I was so angry but laughed at the same time. As smart and hardworking the Chinese seem, they also seem quite naive and follow the 'western' styles alot, without thinking first. They took down part of the cities culture, just to be more 'clean' when they probably don't even know the definanition of clean in this context. This made me angry.
For extra info here is my thread about this very issue which pictures and videos: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...775&highlight=

Anyway back on topic, awesome building!!!!
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Old December 15th, 2011, 10:13 AM   #9384
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What is your take on Singapore?

90% of singapore looks like this:

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Old December 15th, 2011, 11:09 AM   #9385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelworld123 View Post
Finally, I think someone mentioned above about cities now trying to take the style of the 'bad planning' which I'm assuming you meant dense cities such as London and NY. I completely disagree lol. I think that the Chinese developers are looking up to the western style plans (mainly North American exc. NY) and think that they are 'ideal'. They see the densely packed buildings of say London, HK, NYC as not good, messy, 'bad image' etc. But I believe this is completely wrong. They should look at how practical, convieniant, lively these style cities are.

An example of their mindset - in Shanghai a road called Zhapu Lu. There were many neons and bright lights on this popular street not too long ago (probably few years ago). When I first discovered it I was like 'wow, I didn't know Shanghai had places like this!'. However, to my somehow expected disappointment, the last time I looked, all the beautiful vibrant neons were gone. The city planners or whatever decided to take down these neons as it looked 'messy' and showed a bad imagine (?) to the world in the lead up and during the Shanghai Expo. I was so angry but laughed at the same time. As smart and hardworking the Chinese seem, they also seem quite naive and follow the 'western' styles alot, without thinking first. They took down part of the cities culture, just to be more 'clean' when they probably don't even know the definanition of clean in this context. This made me angry.
For extra info here is my thread about this very issue which pictures and videos: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...775&highlight=

Anyway back on topic, awesome building!!!!
What is practical? You seem to forget the fact that all the cities you mentioned, including HK and NYC (and don't forget Tokyo), have narrow and densely packed urban planning because their limited space have forced them to do so. Yes, it looks nice and cosy and all that, but who says its practical? I find myself getting lost much easier when I walk in Hong Kong, compared to Shanghai where itís almost impossible to get lost. Shanghai has one major advantage that differs from all the others who play in the same league Ė itís the largest city proper in the world. Their space isnít limited, itís unlimited.

And about Zhapu Lu: Thereís hundreds other streets in Shanghai that looks like this, and some of them look much more clean. Maybe not as narrow, but then again Ė whatís so practical about it? Why is it a good thing when a street in Shanghai looks Hongkongish?
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Old December 15th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #9386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post


What is your take on Singapore?

90% of singapore looks like this:
What you mean? I'm not too familiar with Singapore but I've been there once many years ago but didn't really explore the CBD, mainly Sentosa Island



Quote:
Originally Posted by ganghui View Post
What is practical? You seem to forget the fact that all the cities you mentioned, including HK and NYC (and don't forget Tokyo), have narrow and densely packed urban planning because their limited space have forced them to do so. Yes, it looks nice and cosy and all that, but who says its practical? I find myself getting lost much easier when I walk in Hong Kong, compared to Shanghai where itís almost impossible to get lost. Shanghai has one major advantage that differs from all the others who play in the same league Ė itís the largest city proper in the world. Their space isnít limited, itís unlimited.

And about Zhapu Lu: Thereís hundreds other streets in Shanghai that looks like this, and some of them look much more clean. Maybe not as narrow, but then again Ė whatís so practical about it? Why is it a good thing when a street in Shanghai looks Hongkongish?
Ok yes HK is limited in space and also NYC I guess, but other cities such as London, Bangkok, Tokyo, Cairo etc all are not limited by any space yet from natural development and evolution of cities, it has become the vibrant packed cities they are today. When a city is built from need and natural development it seems to be more practical and dense than pre-planned cities. Look at Brasilia for example. It's one of the many pre planned cities and is now rated as one of the worst cities in terms of practicality, style, planning etc.

With the practicality issue, yes, the more dense, more compact, the more practical. I don't know how you got lost in HK in comparison to Shanghai, but HK was so easy to navigate, especially with the MTR system. The compact nature of the city made it much easy to walk around, more convieniant to find a quick bite, much less walking - it's just more walkable and enjoyable to walk around. As I stated previously, when I was in Pudong Lujiazui in Shanghai, we actually were lost (not really lost lost, but took ages to get to our destination due to the lack of good signs, took big to walk around a plot therefore disorientating us a bit. However I'm not sure about how it is currently).

And with the advatange largest city proper thing with the unlimited space. Yes I guess thats good in a sense, but when you have so much space and you mix that with poor urban planning, you get the results of a nightmare city in terms of praciticality - 'suburbia'. It's so impracticle when the urban sprawl grows and grows. Lol, I know all about that

Regarding Zhapu Lu, could you please tell me many other streets in Shanghai like this? I cannot seem to find any. Also when I was talking about that it wasn't it terms of practicality. It was nothing to do with practicality lol. It was in the context of the planning of the Chinese etc please reread my previous post if you wish to clarify.

I love Shanghai though dont get me wrong
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Old December 15th, 2011, 01:54 PM   #9387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelworld123 View Post
Regarding Zhapu Lu, could you please tell me many other streets in Shanghai like this? I cannot seem to find any. Also when I was talking about that it wasn't it terms of practicality. It was nothing to do with practicality lol. It was in the context of the planning of the Chinese etc please reread my previous post if you wish to clarify.
Take a stroll down the narrow light-up bar streets of Hengshan Lu, or explore hidden sideways in Hongkou. Xuhui is a good district for finding alot of these streets.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 05:06 PM   #9388
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This is also Pudong:



















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Old December 15th, 2011, 05:18 PM   #9389
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Not sure what the point of those photos is.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 05:28 PM   #9390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VECTROTALENZIS View Post
This is also Pudong:
Pudong yes, but not exactly the Lujiazui area where all the skyscrapers are... which was the main focus of this lol
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Old December 15th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #9391
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By ethan织的围脖

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Old December 15th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #9392
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^Great overview point.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 01:16 AM   #9393
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@ Vectro, dude, please resize those pictures please plus post that in a relevant thread.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 07:37 AM   #9394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
Good point there. Looking at NYC Manhattan or Chicago I feel frustrated seeing skyscrapers or other buildings literally just few meters apart facing each other wall to wall. How good is that? What do they see through their windows? Wall of another building? And how is that good on the ground level? Feels like a cage... or prison.
Absolutely! I would always prefer open, spacious, comfortable planning than the cramped, congested one.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 11:45 AM   #9395
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By 工也川

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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:11 PM   #9396
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It's finally revealing its definitive shape.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 02:59 PM   #9397
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I wonder where people get the idea that Lujiazui somehow is the "centre" of Shanghai. It is basically an outlying area of the city. A peripheral business district. Who cares what it's like at street level. 99% of the city is a densely packed urban jungle.
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #9398
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now we can finally see the tapering of the tower!
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Old December 16th, 2011, 03:40 PM   #9399
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Week old but interesting location.

10.12.11 by 塔吊工程师, liftok.com


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Old December 16th, 2011, 07:44 PM   #9400
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What's the height of the tower at this moment, and how many levels or floors are constructed so far?
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