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Old January 17th, 2012, 07:11 AM   #9781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kix111 View Post
I noticed that too when i was in Shanghai. The land next to Jinmao looks also being redeveloped.

Another thing i noticed, they are digging a huge foundation for some structure (probably a building by the size of it) near the river, in front of Citi Bank and Aurora tower.
This is certainly good news. I remember back in the early 2000's when each building in Lujiazui (there weren't even that many back then) was surrounded by a huge parking lot and a garden, which definitely contributed to the barrenness and pedestrian unfriendliness and lack of density.

Now it looks like they are taking steps to fill out those useless lots and parks surrounding the buildings and adding some much needed density. I remember reading that Shanghai city planners are fully aware that Lujiazui needs more vibrancy and it's great to see changes being made.

Hopefully these will work out. If so, the supertalls, pedestrian walkways, and added density would make Lujiazui rival Central/Admiralty's grandeur and iconic-ness.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 09:25 AM   #9782
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Nord's new shots are simply stunning. Love that nightview! And I agree what some people said before, even though it has no cladding yet it still looks damn good…

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Originally Posted by rebbel13 View Post
If you want to internationalize you have to open up, like the freedom of speech. I see it everyday here, most Chinese (including Shanghainese) have no clue how the rest of the world works (which might be due to the government). I don't care, but if you want to be an international (finance) centre, you need to know more about the world.
Perfect, just like the average american then? Now drop this talk, I see no reason to call a whole population stupid. Anyway, what the video proves it that the Chinese people know the names of both Western and Asian leaders, while lets say Americans only know the names of Western leaders.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #9783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganghui View Post
Nord's new shots are simply stunning. Love that nightview! And I agree what some people said before, even though it has no cladding yet it still looks damn good…


Perfect, just like the average american then? Now drop this talk, I see no reason to call a whole population stupid. Anyway, what the video proves it that the Chinese people know the names of both Western and Asian leaders, while lets say Americans only know the names of Western leaders.

The truth is: People from Big Countries like China and US, they tend to more focus on domestic issues than the international affairs, cs there are way enough things going on within the country for them to worry about...That's why people from small to medium size countries like the Netherlands and UK keep accusing China and US being the hells of Great-nation Chauvinism or Chinese/Americans being egoists. Chinese are simply not on the same wavelength as the small-nation Syndrome Europeans.
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Last edited by little universe; January 17th, 2012 at 10:39 AM.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #9784
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nice image!very stunning building!
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Old January 17th, 2012, 01:05 PM   #9785
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Am I the only one who thinks that the space around this towers should stay empty? Densifying the area would create a NY kind of experience: canyons. But we already have NY, and every other city in the world building skyscrapers is heading towards the same experience. We need a new experience!
And I think Lujiazui with it's spread out supertalls is great, maybe not for the day by day life, but for the one time tourist kick it's just perfect: the dimensions of towers and the streets should make you feel very small and you have full view on each of the towers. This is more like a giant forest.
I would like to see them keeping and extending this kind of urban development, more and higher towers but with same density.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #9786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganghui View Post
Nord's new shots are simply stunning. Love that nightview! And I agree what some people said before, even though it has no cladding yet it still looks damn good…


Perfect, just like the average american then? Now drop this talk, I see no reason to call a whole population stupid. Anyway, what the video proves it that the Chinese people know the names of both Western and Asian leaders, while lets say Americans only know the names of Western leaders.
True, we can have a long discussion about this, but everyone has a different view on the topic (which is actually nice for a discussion). Don't think it really matters, Shanghai is not HK or NY and will always be different (not saying better or worse), just because of the fact it is in China. International or not it will always be focussed on the huge Chinese market.

Back on topic;
Saw today that the cranes are still moving. Will they continue during Chinese Newyear? Many other projects are already shut down.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #9787
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good documentory, just saw the whole thing, but it was very british haha
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Old January 18th, 2012, 02:56 AM   #9788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebbel13 View Post
True, we can have a long discussion about this, but everyone has a different view on the topic (which is actually nice for a discussion). Don't think it really matters, Shanghai is not HK or NY and will always be different (not saying better or worse), just because of the fact it is in China. International or not it will always be focussed on the huge Chinese market.

Back on topic;
Saw today that the cranes are still moving. Will they continue during Chinese Newyear? Many other projects are already shut down.
I'd be very surprised if it didn't at least shut down during the week-long government holiday (22-29 January).
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Old January 18th, 2012, 05:13 AM   #9789
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Refelction and Shadow of ST on SWFC!

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7370162...n/photostream/
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I love Beijing ChaoyangMen, Rising Skyscrapers beyond it!


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Old January 18th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #9790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
This is certainly good news. I remember back in the early 2000's when each building in Lujiazui (there weren't even that many back then) was surrounded by a huge parking lot and a garden, which definitely contributed to the barrenness and pedestrian unfriendliness and lack of density.

Now it looks like they are taking steps to fill out those useless lots and parks surrounding the buildings and adding some much needed density. I remember reading that Shanghai city planners are fully aware that Lujiazui needs more vibrancy and it's great to see changes being made.

Hopefully these will work out. If so, the supertalls, pedestrian walkways, and added density would make Lujiazui rival Central/Admiralty's grandeur and iconic-ness.

Ahhh, your mind thoughts are exactly like mine!! This is exactly how I'm thinking.

One thing, when you mean 'back in 2000...' do you mean that now, the plots are being reduced/use up and new skyscrapers will have smaller plots? What happened to the 'huge' plots back then?

Also do you remember where you read about the Shanghai planners realising Lujiazui needs more density?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nr. 2 View Post
Am I the only one who thinks that the space around this towers should stay empty? Densifying the area would create a NY kind of experience: canyons. But we already have NY, and every other city in the world building skyscrapers is heading towards the same experience. We need a new experience!
And I think Lujiazui with it's spread out supertalls is great, maybe not for the day by day life, but for the one time tourist kick it's just perfect: the dimensions of towers and the streets should make you feel very small and you have full view on each of the towers. This is more like a giant forest.
I would like to see them keeping and extending this kind of urban development, more and higher towers but with same density.
Hmmm, I completely disagree. Densifying an area doesn't 'create a NY kind of experience'. It's done for the cities own purpose and practicality. Does that mean any city that wishes to densify for whatever reason suddenly is 'accused' of trying to imitate NY??

And not every other city is trying to imitate NY. I can't think of one city that is trying to imitate NY. Maybe Chongqing but that is just normal, regular development in an island/peninsular that happens to be similar to the island of Manhattan, thus leading to the natural, dense development.
If anything, I think as you put it, 'imitating NYC' is rarer and much better of an 'experience' than having less dense since more CBD's around the world (especially newer ones) are spread out and less dense.

Lastly, I think it's better for the tourist when it's denser, in terms of practicality and photogenic-ness. Yes, you feel small amongst huge skyscrapers, but there is not difference if it was denser. In Hong Kong in Central/Admiralty/Wan Chai where the skyscrapers are literally next to each other similar to NY, I felt the same looming, grand feeling.

Just my opinion
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Old January 18th, 2012, 07:34 AM   #9791
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Old January 18th, 2012, 08:12 AM   #9792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travelworld123 View Post
Ahhh, your mind thoughts are exactly like mine!! This is exactly how I'm thinking.

One thing, when you mean 'back in 2000...' do you mean that now, the plots are being reduced/use up and new skyscrapers will have smaller plots? What happened to the 'huge' plots back then?

Also do you remember where you read about the Shanghai planners realising Lujiazui needs more density?
Yes, back then, you'll notice that a building occupied a massive plot with gardens and parking lots beside it. This was especially true for the area now occupied by Jasper Tower, Development Tower, Merryland Tower, etc. It wasn't that the new skyscrapers have smaller plots per se, but that there was a lot of vacant space around a building. I wish I had a picture to show you but I'm not having much luck digging one up right now. It's not so much new skyscrapers will have smaller plots by design but that the vacant spaces are being filled in (like the space next to Jin Mao). In fact, if you go onto Google Maps now, you'll see that that plot next to Jin Mao was still a well manicured park/garden. Good riddence!

Haha hopefully, wishfully, maybe someday, that useless waste of space they call Lujiazui Park will also be carved up and filled in with beautiful office buildings with vibrant retail at the ground level.

I don't remember exactly where I read it, but it might have been a link to a china daily article in a post in the Shanghai Projects and Construction thread. The shift from space to density is surprisingly not that unique. It still amazes me when I see pictures of Shinjuku or Taipei back in the day (1980s) how they looked as lifeless, barren, and spread out as Lujiazui today. At this rate, I'm sure Lujiazui by mid 2020's would be just as awesome.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #9793
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Originally Posted by travelworld123 View Post
Hmmm, I completely disagree. Densifying an area doesn't 'create a NY kind of experience'. It's done for the cities own purpose and practicality. Does that mean any city that wishes to densify for whatever reason suddenly is 'accused' of trying to imitate NY??

And not every other city is trying to imitate NY. I can't think of one city that is trying to imitate NY. Maybe Chongqing but that is just normal, regular development in an island/peninsular that happens to be similar to the island of Manhattan, thus leading to the natural, dense development.
If anything, I think as you put it, 'imitating NYC' is rarer and much better of an 'experience' than having less dense since more CBD's around the world (especially newer ones) are spread out and less dense.

Lastly, I think it's better for the tourist when it's denser, in terms of practicality and photogenic-ness. Yes, you feel small amongst huge skyscrapers, but there is not difference if it was denser. In Hong Kong in Central/Admiralty/Wan Chai where the skyscrapers are literally next to each other similar to NY, I felt the same looming, grand feeling.

Just my opinion
Too much highrise density is a good friend of photographer who like to shoot skylines, an exciting birdview opening in a movie, but for people live with it everyday it's just a disaster.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:52 AM   #9794
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Too much highrise density is a good friend of photographer who like to shoot skylines, an exciting birdview opening in a movie, but for people live with it everyday it's just a disaster.
The mile long blocks and frustratingly vast stretches of useless open space and lack of retail in Shanghai is horrendous to put up with on a daily basis. When working 80+ hours a week, the last thing you care about is the open space and gardens surrounding your office. All you want is quick access to the subway and convenient retail food places around you, neither of which Lujiazui offers (few offices are within comfortable walking distance to line 2 and super brand mall).
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #9795
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Wow... Jin Mao and SWFC (even more) look killer in this pic. It will be hell of a spot for pictures when the ST is done.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 01:45 PM   #9796
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Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
The mile long blocks and frustratingly vast stretches of useless open space and lack of retail in Shanghai is horrendous to put up with on a daily basis. When working 80+ hours a week, the last thing you care about is the open space and gardens surrounding your office. All you want is quick access to the subway and convenient retail food places around you, neither of which Lujiazui offers (few offices are within comfortable walking distance to line 2 and super brand mall).
Two sides of a coin, it's always about balance and tradeoff. Personally I prefer more open space, it could transform into more lively and pedestrian friendly area with proper design if the owner or the public is willing to change. But for mature urban area the opposite way of transformation is much more difficult, most of time just complex property rights could kill all good wills.

As current situation of Lujiazui, it does need some changes we are talking about. In my wild dream they should turn the triangular areas among three towers into a plaza, fill with some openair or temporary structure restaurants, small shops, snack bar, something like that.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 01:55 PM   #9797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
The mile long blocks and frustratingly vast stretches of useless open space and lack of retail in Shanghai is horrendous to put up with on a daily basis. When working 80+ hours a week, the last thing you care about is the open space and gardens surrounding your office. All you want is quick access to the subway and convenient retail food places around you, neither of which Lujiazui offers (few offices are within comfortable walking distance to line 2 and super brand mall).
Do you mean retail places to consume cooked food, or retail places to carry away packed food from?
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Old January 18th, 2012, 02:17 PM   #9798
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Do you mean retail places to consume cooked food, or retail places to carry away packed food from?
I mean "temporary", bringing more street life and keeping flexibility, something like tents or light steel temporary constructions or just a flow design change, it could be restaurant, coffee shop, or brothel
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Old January 18th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #9799
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I want to see cladding !!!
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Old January 18th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #9800
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I want to see cladding !!!
Me too , but i guess we still have to wait a bit.
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