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Old August 17th, 2013, 02:13 PM   #16221
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[IMG]http://i44.************/1sfuo2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i44.************/2cr51rk.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i41.************/2rzawkh.jpg[/IMG]

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Old August 17th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #16222
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great pics , the glass in dreamy
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Old August 17th, 2013, 02:28 PM   #16223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fgvfc58 View Post
[IMG]http://i39.************/21dk7jn.jpg[/IMG]
is there any plan to paint the outer cladding steel white/silver like the render?
i really hope they're not going to leave it black. it'll make the atrium looks darker and slightly fraught
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Old August 17th, 2013, 02:33 PM   #16224
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by koyihu

[IMG]http://i42.************/5pn14i.jpg[/IMG]
hey mister, get your hands off of her!
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Old August 17th, 2013, 02:57 PM   #16225
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Originally Posted by Nordschleife View Post
Photo by WL Chieh
PS by moyan808
Credit goes to Nordschleife, WL Cieh, & moyan808

it have been posted before but i just noticed it now so, yeah VERY realistic photoshop, great illustration!!
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Old August 17th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #16226
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hey mister, get your hands off of her!
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Old August 17th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #16227
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this building is absolutely remarkable ! It shits all over WTC 1 and The Shard in London in my view !!
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Old August 17th, 2013, 04:04 PM   #16228
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you can't really compare it against the shard because it's twice the height
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Old August 17th, 2013, 04:37 PM   #16229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Pansori I shall endeavor to be kind.

I know a great deal about fiscal, financial, economic and monetary policy as well as economic history.

China will correct. You cannot change the Laws of Maths or Economics or Exponents just because we are discussing China.

China is not special.

China is not different.

The issue is how much of a correction, when and for how long.

Already markets in Shaanxi are correcting -60%.

What happened in Romania, Hungary, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, UK and USA will happen in China.

It is inevitable.

The question is how much? Real Estate in China can correct without China collapsing.

The Chinese government could simply write off all the bad debt. This would cause rates to rise, risk to be borne, and many would exit the market but many Chinese would then begin borrowing and lending without pause. Yet the value of the assets would drop and losses would be taken.

You cannot place Maths into abeyance just because 'China is special'.

It isn't.

I've seen too many articles saying "China is not sustainable""Chinese economy will collapse soon""Bubble will burst now" in the past 10 years, and this concern is also widespread among the public in China.

Getting tired seeing this again, as it has not, and does not look like it's going down.

China is a developing country, it would be more fair to compare it with developing countries like India or Brazil. China is still poor in general, and it HAS TOO MUCH ROOM TO KEEP GROWING until it reach the average standard for the developed world.

The financial crisis of 2008/2009 hurt China, India and the developing world badly as well, you are right China is not immune. But what you see is they recover much quicker. The economic growth dropped sharply from 11%+ to 7.9%. Yet what you see after the crisis is the "slow" growth is more than enough to support continued construction and investment.

You need to know prices are forward looking, and based on expectations.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 05:01 PM   #16230
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Wrong! Why do some people always get so unreasonably defensive when others make negative but objective remarks about China?

Is China not a totalitarian society? Laugh my ass off. If you think China, one of very few totalitarian countries remaining on the planet, isn't totalitarian, then perhaps the word "totalitarian" has a different meaning in your own little dictionary. BTW, I'm Chinese too, but that doesn't mean I need to blindly deny every negative comment made about my home country.

Chinese real estate market, commercial and residential, indeed seems frothy right now. This is not just something that the Western media use to "tarnish" China's image. Even the Chinese government has acknowledged some serious systematic risks now exist in China's real estate and financial markets. In the past few years, excessive liquidity was pumped into the Chinese economy, where a mature capital market did not exist. Chinese enterprises and private citizens didn't have enough investment vehicles to put their money in other than chasing the housing market. Lots of companies with core businesses in other areas dipped their feet into real estate speculation. In the meantime, lots of average people got into a frenzy of buying condos too even if they had to leverage. Things were going wild. And in the process, enormous amount of bad loans were created. Some loans were even borrowed to service old loans, signaling a classic initial sign of a financial crisis. You wonder why there's still a credit crunch after so much liquidity was injected into the economy. You should look for the answer in the real estate market.

In China's top tier cities, the problem doesn't seem too bad. But in smaller Chinese cities, there really are blocks and blocks of empty apartment buildings. Some are half asses. Some are in disrepair already before they could be sold. It might take years if not forever for the market to fully digest those developments. So ghost towns are not some fictional anti-China propaganda portrayed in Western media. They are a reality!

A good metric to measure a given real estate market's health is the price-to-rent ratio. In virtually all Chinese cities, it's not uncommon for condos that sell for millions of RMB to only rent for a couple thousand per month. This interesting phenomenon reals the true housing demand is actually pretty weak. A big percentage of condos sold to owners actually don't have people live in. With regard to commercial real estate, many grade A office buildings in top tier cities like Guangzhou and Shenzhen have huge ugly leasing ads on them, even though they opened to tenants several years ago. Most likely China's construction boom will take a breath in the next few years. Why should you expect otherwise?
Bolded- Very true, everyone has no issue saying negative things about the USA..bring up China everyone goes wild..must be insecuritys
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Old August 17th, 2013, 05:08 PM   #16231
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Breathtaking
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Old August 17th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #16232
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Old August 17th, 2013, 07:03 PM   #16233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamhou2005 View Post
I've seen too many articles saying "China is not sustainable""Chinese economy will collapse soon""Bubble will burst now" in the past 10 years, and this concern is also widespread among the public in China.

Getting tired seeing this again, as it has not, and does not look like it's going down.

You need to know prices are forward looking, and based on expectations.
If those expectations cannot be met, and the people I know and speak to tell me they will not, then prices must drop.

There is a finite amount of intergenerational savings in China. One cannot predicate the future value of an asset based upon all of the savings of everyone before them, because to get that cash you need to sell your property to get it.
Quote:
Getting tired seeing this again, as it has not, and does not look like it's going down.
This was said in all of the nations I listed. Thus that you wrote it, proves that it is going to happen. Your psychology is precisely what occurs in a bubble and your responses, ones I have read so many times from Americans, Canadians, Spaniards, prove my thesis.

Since you did not read what I wrote, I will repeat:

There is no way to know when a bubble will correct. I did not claim it would happen now. In fact I mentioned one can never predict such an event nor the extent. The markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

The Maths is inevitable. Eventually, and it looks to be happening right now, people don't have the money to buy and they are priced out.

This is basic 10 year old student maths. Two exponents diverge when one is larger than the other. Inevitably the smaller one (wage growth) cannot keep pace with the larger one (home asset growth). When that happens, prices adjust so that people can afford to buy.

Asset values cannot indefinitely rise faster than the incomes which support them. It's impossible. Eventually the asset will drop in value because there is not enough money to buy it.

It's why I refuse to buy in China. Every single soft data point screams to me that it's a bubble ready to revert to mean and drop prices.

One of the big ones is that everyone is chasing return.

Everyone knows or heard of someone who bought in 2001 and made 500k Euros. The problem is that those buyers in 2001 bought predicated on other facts. Now, everyone is chasing that one huge payoff and that's impossible and the fact that apparently educated and reasonable people such as yourself do not recognise this for what it is, proves the point. This happened in Ireland and Spain and Los Angeles and...the educated began to say the irrational things that you say.

The psychology is identical. The results will be similar

Last edited by China Hand; August 17th, 2013 at 07:09 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 08:32 PM   #16234
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[IMG]http://i44.************/2cr51rk.jpg[/IMG]
I like the way the building towers above the one at the foreground.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #16235
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Just saw this awesome commercial from Apple. Go to :30 for a sweet clip of ST.

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Old August 17th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #16236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Pansori I shall endeavor to be kind.

I know a great deal about fiscal, financial, economic and monetary policy as well as economic history.

China will correct. You cannot change the Laws of Maths or Economics or Exponents just because we are discussing China.

China is not special.

China is not different.

The issue is how much of a correction, when and for how long.

Already markets in Shaanxi are correcting -60%.

What happened in Romania, Hungary, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, UK and USA will happen in China.

It is inevitable.

The question is how much? Real Estate in China can correct without China collapsing.

The Chinese government could simply write off all the bad debt. This would cause rates to rise, risk to be borne, and many would exit the market but many Chinese would then begin borrowing and lending without pause. Yet the value of the assets would drop and losses would be taken.

You cannot place Maths into abeyance just because 'China is special'.

It isn't.
I think you missed part of my post and imply that I stated opposite to what you wrote. In fact I didn't. It takes to just read what is actually written and not put words into one's mouth.

I will quote myself:

Quote:
There are challenges and even a probability of a slowdown but such 'insights' are completely out of touch with reality. And they are still having a hangover after the tirade of negative stories on China's HSR a couple of years back which by now has been proven to be a complete bluff and sham journalism at its worst.
To clarify I am not saying China is not going to 'correct' or 'slowdown'. Hell, it may even crash. Who knows. What I am saying is that the articles that we have been reading on China are almost always engaging into cheap sham journalism and sensationalism without going much into relevant details. Which is also why I brought China's HSR topic as a primary example which exposed the issue so well. If you read some of those articles which were published a couple of years ago you'll probably laugh. I do.

Sure, there are challenges ahead but drawing parallels to US housing crash (remember, China's currency is not even traded globally yet! There are countless differences which are absolutely fundamental and crucial in how China's financial system and economy works) or Japanese over-investment in infrastructure in the 80's (when it had GDP per capita higher than that of the US and was already one of the most developed nations in the world) is outright idiotic.

My problem is not if China has challenges in its economy. I'm not denying that and noone does. But how they are identified and portrayed in some of the American media. They are criticizing the bad fuel pump becuase their own fuel pump is broken while in fact they should be looking at the tyre pressure instead.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 11:20 PM   #16237
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i actually find the discussion about China's future very interesting and would enjoy reading about it in another subforum, but here it kind of gets out of hand..
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Old August 17th, 2013, 11:37 PM   #16238
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^ + And almost completely unrelated to this forum section.
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Old August 17th, 2013, 11:42 PM   #16239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
Pansori I shall endeavor to be kind.

I know a great deal about fiscal, financial, economic and monetary policy as well as economic history.

China will correct. You cannot change the Laws of Maths or Economics or Exponents just because we are discussing China.

China is not special.

China is not different.

The issue is how much of a correction, when and for how long.

Already markets in Shaanxi are correcting -60%.

What happened in Romania, Hungary, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Ireland, UK and USA will happen in China.

It is inevitable.

The question is how much? Real Estate in China can correct without China collapsing.

The Chinese government could simply write off all the bad debt. This would cause rates to rise, risk to be borne, and many would exit the market but many Chinese would then begin borrowing and lending without pause. Yet the value of the assets would drop and losses would be taken.

You cannot place Maths into abeyance just because 'China is special'.

It isn't.
Lol, look who thinks they have a degree and understanding of economics and the "real estate in china", this kid is delusional and clearly is doing this cause he probably hates China, what a troll acting like a smart arse.

Source - Im a Graduate of LSE for economics 2010 and my dictation was related to the economy in CHINA.

P.S please actually understand something before u start opening ur mouth and pretend u know what ur talking about. Your a joke.
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Old August 18th, 2013, 03:16 AM   #16240
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