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Old March 7th, 2008, 03:35 PM   #4741
archaeologue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goleyson View Post
OMG! im too young.. i never had a memory or a recall of this fountain hehehe. the fountain of the basilica has always been my all time fave.. going to the basilica during my younger years would mean seeing my favorite fountain which used to be in the front yard,now the pilgrim center...

by the way, were diggings made before the pilgrim center was built? were there artifacts recovered? where are they now?

how about those on the plaza as well before the SRP tunnel was built? i think there was but where are the artifacts now?

hahha...i was actually a grade schooler as far i can remember regarding the fountain.

anyway, funny that you asked about the pilgrim center because the thought also occurred to me last night and i did think out loud to Msgr. Carl Pono (we were out in a party in Minglanilla last night). And apparently, he too doesn't remember if there were any artifacts that were recovered.

Masao Nishimura (working on his dissertation at Univ. of Michigan) excavated the grounds of the Basilica in 1985-86. He found some burials which were suspected to be those of Augustinian friars. He also excavated San Nicolas Church, Parian Plaza, Palza Hamabar, Cebu Metropolitan Cathedral but these yielded only Chinese ceramic sherds and no burials.

Plaza Independencia was excavated twice (in 2001 and again in 2006) as part of the requirements for the construction of the subway.

let me look for some of the photos of the 2006 dig. I happened to drop by in between the research i was doing at NUS (it got so boring in Singapore that I decided to come home to Cebu and have a look-see at what my colleagues from the National Museum and from U.P. Diliman were finding.)
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Old March 7th, 2008, 03:35 PM   #4742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goleyson View Post
OMG! im too young.. i never had a memory or a recall of this fountain hehehe. the fountain of the basilica has always been my all time fave.. going to the basilica during my younger years would mean seeing my favorite fountain which used to be in the front yard,now the pilgrim center...

by the way, were diggings made before the pilgrim center was built? were there artifacts recovered? where are they now?

how about those on the plaza as well before the SRP tunnel was built? i think there was but where are the artifacts now?

hahha...i was actually a grade schooler as far i can remember regarding the fountain.

anyway, funny that you asked about the pilgrim center because the thought also occurred to me last night and i did think out loud to Msgr. Carl Pono (we were out in a party in Minglanilla last night). And apparently, he too doesn't remember if there were any artifacts that were recovered.

Masao Nishimura (working on his dissertation at Univ. of Michigan) excavated the grounds of the Basilica in 1985-86. He found some burials which were suspected to be those of Augustinian friars. He also excavated San Nicolas Church, Parian Plaza, Palza Hamabar, Cebu Metropolitan Cathedral but these yielded only Chinese ceramic sherds and no burials.

Plaza Independencia was excavated twice (in 2001 and again in 2006) as part of the requirements for the construction of the subway.

let me look for some of the photos of the 2006 dig. I happened to drop by in between the research i was doing at NUS (it got so boring in Singapore that I decided to come home to Cebu and have a look-see at what my colleagues from the National Museum and from U.P. Diliman were finding.)
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Old March 7th, 2008, 03:47 PM   #4743
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Sir Joebers, haha!! Age doesn't matter pud.

Anyway, I've stummbled upon something here in Center for West Visayan Studies in UP Iloilo the name of the wife of Humabon was Hara Humamai. Is this true?
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Old March 7th, 2008, 03:47 PM   #4744
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Sir Joebers, haha!! Age doesn't matter pud.

Anyway, I've stummbled upon something here in Center for West Visayan Studies in UP Iloilo the name of the wife of Humabon was Hara Humamai. Is this true?
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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #4745
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The Plaza Independencia Excavations of 2006

Here are some of the photos shared to me by the National Museum personnel who excavated portions of Plaza Independencia that would be hit by the subway diggings:




The Site.






Two inhumations in one 5 x 5 meter unit. The depth at this point is about 1.5 meters below present ground surface.





Adult inhumation in flexed position.The position of the arms may indicate that this is a female. Note a small iron tool (guna or amol?) on her right pelvic region.




Excavation in progress. This is at a depth of about 2.4 meters below present ground surface.





A juvenile inhumation with skeletal remains severely disintegrated. Note the celadon greenware bowl and a bown stoneware teacup.





Some of the artifacts recovered representing different time periods (pre-hispanic to American colonial)





Vice Mayor Mike Rama visiting the site.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #4746
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The Plaza Independencia Excavations of 2006

Here are some of the photos shared to me by the National Museum personnel who excavated portions of Plaza Independencia that would be hit by the subway diggings:




The Site.






Two inhumations in one 5 x 5 meter unit. The depth at this point is about 1.5 meters below present ground surface.





Adult inhumation in flexed position.The position of the arms may indicate that this is a female. Note a small iron tool (guna or amol?) on her right pelvic region.




Excavation in progress. This is at a depth of about 2.4 meters below present ground surface.





A juvenile inhumation with skeletal remains severely disintegrated. Note the celadon greenware bowl and a bown stoneware teacup.





Some of the artifacts recovered representing different time periods (pre-hispanic to American colonial)





Vice Mayor Mike Rama visiting the site.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #4747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_Bino View Post
Here is a Layout of the Cebu Cathedral Attached to a 1780 paper..

Displayed in the Sto. Ni˝o Museum..

Watercolor sad sya


@Ka Bino

Di ba Sto. Nino ra ang gi-sketch ani? But the map is very, very interesting indeed because it antedates the 1833 map i found. It would be good to compare what has changed in the 50 years between these two maps by comparing them. But since Cebu was a backwater port until its opening to world trade (in 1836?), I doubt if any difference will show.

I should really go to the Sto. Nino Museum

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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #4748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka_Bino View Post
Here is a Layout of the Cebu Cathedral Attached to a 1780 paper..

Displayed in the Sto. Ni˝o Museum..

Watercolor sad sya


@Ka Bino

Di ba Sto. Nino ra ang gi-sketch ani? But the map is very, very interesting indeed because it antedates the 1833 map i found. It would be good to compare what has changed in the 50 years between these two maps by comparing them. But since Cebu was a backwater port until its opening to world trade (in 1836?), I doubt if any difference will show.

I should really go to the Sto. Nino Museum

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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:25 PM   #4749
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@Sir Joebers. I read your article at Inquirer.

Have you seen the Ereccion del Pueblo at the National Archives? How can we gain access there since I wasn't allowed to enter there back when I was researching for my thesis for my undergraduate studies.

Thanks!
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Old March 7th, 2008, 04:25 PM   #4750
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@Sir Joebers. I read your article at Inquirer.

Have you seen the Ereccion del Pueblo at the National Archives? How can we gain access there since I wasn't allowed to enter there back when I was researching for my thesis for my undergraduate studies.

Thanks!
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Old March 7th, 2008, 05:01 PM   #4751
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naa kaha makahimo dinhi sa Cebu ug reconstruction sa nawng sa mga nakubkuban na skeletons, IMO, murag naa lagi gamay difference ang bone structure nila sa modern-day na Cebuanos
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Old March 7th, 2008, 05:01 PM   #4752
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naa kaha makahimo dinhi sa Cebu ug reconstruction sa nawng sa mga nakubkuban na skeletons, IMO, murag naa lagi gamay difference ang bone structure nila sa modern-day na Cebuanos
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Old March 8th, 2008, 08:59 AM   #4753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
@Sir Joebers. I read your article at Inquirer.

Have you seen the Ereccion del Pueblo at the National Archives? How can we gain access there since I wasn't allowed to enter there back when I was researching for my thesis for my undergraduate studies.

Thanks!
thanks...at least naay nakabasa....

all the erecciones for cebu are now at cebuano studies center courtesy of the cebu town histories project. yes, the erecciones are accessible at the national archives

the archives are open to all researchers...i wonder why you were not allowed in..
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Old March 8th, 2008, 08:59 AM   #4754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habagatcentral1 View Post
@Sir Joebers. I read your article at Inquirer.

Have you seen the Ereccion del Pueblo at the National Archives? How can we gain access there since I wasn't allowed to enter there back when I was researching for my thesis for my undergraduate studies.

Thanks!
thanks...at least naay nakabasa....

all the erecciones for cebu are now at cebuano studies center courtesy of the cebu town histories project. yes, the erecciones are accessible at the national archives

the archives are open to all researchers...i wonder why you were not allowed in..
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Old March 8th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #4755
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Originally Posted by flesh_is_weak View Post
naa kaha makahimo dinhi sa Cebu ug reconstruction sa nawng sa mga nakubkuban na skeletons, IMO, murag naa lagi gamay difference ang bone structure nila sa modern-day na Cebuanos

it's the national museum that makes life-size reconstructions (called dioramas) of skeletons and even of artifacts from in site excavations...provided you have photos and actual measurements of the inhumation.

as regards actual facial reconstruction, the technology is available only in the u.s. at some select universities like Arizona State U, i think. there is a software now available for that but you have to buy also the apparatus that will do laser screening of the contours and pits of the frontal section of the skull. and that is very, very expensive.

nope i do not think there is a significant difference in terms of skeletal structure of present-day cebuanos and cebuanos living 100 to 500 years ago or even beyond...the stature might change due to diet but the structure will not....well, except of induced cultural practices like teeth filing and the cranial deformation in the form of the flattening of the temporal lobe which was very common in Cebu long before and even during the early decades of Spanish rule.


also, when a person is buried, taphonomic and depositional factors affect inhumation. this can be in the form of bioturbation (plant or tree roots or even rats and other burrowing animals penetrating the burial and eating the flesh or moving the skeleton). other taphonomic factors might be earthquakes which can disarticulate the skeletal placement...or even the decomposition process. which is why burial interpretation has to take into consideration the environment or matrix on which the inhumation is done.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #4756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flesh_is_weak View Post
naa kaha makahimo dinhi sa Cebu ug reconstruction sa nawng sa mga nakubkuban na skeletons, IMO, murag naa lagi gamay difference ang bone structure nila sa modern-day na Cebuanos

it's the national museum that makes life-size reconstructions (called dioramas) of skeletons and even of artifacts from in site excavations...provided you have photos and actual measurements of the inhumation.

as regards actual facial reconstruction, the technology is available only in the u.s. at some select universities like Arizona State U, i think. there is a software now available for that but you have to buy also the apparatus that will do laser screening of the contours and pits of the frontal section of the skull. and that is very, very expensive.

nope i do not think there is a significant difference in terms of skeletal structure of present-day cebuanos and cebuanos living 100 to 500 years ago or even beyond...the stature might change due to diet but the structure will not....well, except of induced cultural practices like teeth filing and the cranial deformation in the form of the flattening of the temporal lobe which was very common in Cebu long before and even during the early decades of Spanish rule.


also, when a person is buried, taphonomic and depositional factors affect inhumation. this can be in the form of bioturbation (plant or tree roots or even rats and other burrowing animals penetrating the burial and eating the flesh or moving the skeleton). other taphonomic factors might be earthquakes which can disarticulate the skeletal placement...or even the decomposition process. which is why burial interpretation has to take into consideration the environment or matrix on which the inhumation is done.

Last edited by archaeologue; March 8th, 2008 at 07:11 PM.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 09:32 AM   #4757
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Originally Posted by archaeologue View Post
Nope. i distinctly remember that it was a small fountain. i'd pass by th place when i was in the elementary years studying at Kian Ke (Phil. Christian Gospel School). There was a garden around it.

I think it was removed for traffic reasons around in the late 1970s or early 80s.

And yes, I am really, really, that old!

I think it was removed in the early 1990s.. I still remember it we used to pass by there before.. I was grade one then (1989-1990)..

So you're really not old, hehehehehe...
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Old March 8th, 2008, 09:32 AM   #4758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archaeologue View Post
Nope. i distinctly remember that it was a small fountain. i'd pass by th place when i was in the elementary years studying at Kian Ke (Phil. Christian Gospel School). There was a garden around it.

I think it was removed for traffic reasons around in the late 1970s or early 80s.

And yes, I am really, really, that old!

I think it was removed in the early 1990s.. I still remember it we used to pass by there before.. I was grade one then (1989-1990)..

So you're really not old, hehehehehe...
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #4759
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basta ako, i cant recall.. too young then to remember or too old that i am forgetting things.. hehe. it would be nice to have fountains coz it is very refreshing to the sight especially with the type of climate we have in the philippines..
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #4760
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basta ako, i cant recall.. too young then to remember or too old that i am forgetting things.. hehe. it would be nice to have fountains coz it is very refreshing to the sight especially with the type of climate we have in the philippines..
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