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Old December 23rd, 2013, 07:01 PM   #2441
Nikonov_Ivan
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Yes, i know. But anyway, HY is going to be a really giant an expensive project, like "city within a city", such as Canary Wharf in London for example, i think, they could make this station at least more expensive. Yes, it is going to be more beautiful and modern than the rest of the subway stations in NYC, but still, it looks rather cheap and small( on renders at least)...
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Old December 24th, 2013, 11:22 PM   #2442
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The thing that bothers me most is that the station/mezzanines/ticket halls actually have pretty high ceilings, which give an enormous feeling of space. But unlike the London Canary Wharf station they're putting in a lower ceiling, to hide all the utility pipes and such. I wonder if they could've done it in another way.
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Old December 25th, 2013, 02:19 AM   #2443
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Perhaps put the cables/pipes together so there's a high ceiling everywhere except either wall. Seems silly these days to put false ceilings into a public building so it makes it claustrophobic
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Old January 6th, 2014, 09:10 PM   #2444
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..

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Old January 6th, 2014, 09:32 PM   #2445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikonov_Ivan View Post
I can't get only one thing: Hudson Yards is going to be a new financial/cultural heart of NY, why couldn't they make a really beautiful, spacious and modern station?
Manhattan schist
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Old January 8th, 2014, 08:18 PM   #2446
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Kinda wish this newest had platform screen doors. I thought it was supposed to have the but maybe I was thinking about the second avenue subway.
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Old January 8th, 2014, 08:44 PM   #2447
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Kinda wish this newest had platform screen doors. I thought it was supposed to have the but maybe I was thinking about the second avenue subway.
This will (or at least should, the last I checked) have PSDs. Don't forget you are looking at a station which is still 6 months away from opening to the public for service. There is no reason to install PSDs this early, as that would unnecesarily impede the flow of equipment for construction. PSDs will likely be one of the last components installed at this station.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #2448
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Quote:
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This will (or at least should, the last I checked) have PSDs. Don't forget you are looking at a station which is still 6 months away from opening to the public for service. There is no reason to install PSDs this early, as that would unnecesarily impede the flow of equipment for construction. PSDs will likely be one of the last components installed at this station.
Then why aren't they on the renders above?
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Old January 10th, 2014, 11:16 PM   #2449
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Old January 11th, 2014, 12:44 AM   #2450
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I've wanted to make these questions for a long time:

Is there a plan to modernise the subway system in New York in the future?

And also, how bad is the overcrowding there compared to London's? The stats show that way more people use NYC's subway than London's underground, so for people who've been to both, does this fact make it more crowded or people just travel at different times?
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Old January 11th, 2014, 04:14 AM   #2451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk327 View Post
I've wanted to make these questions for a long time:

Is there a plan to modernise the subway system in New York in the future?
Depends on what you mean by "modern." What many fail to remember, is that the system went through a terrible bout of neglect in the late 60s and 70s when the city's finances weren't the greatest. Even when it left city control in the mid/late 60s - when the MTA was formed - it was still terribly underfunded.
They're only just now catching up on that 30+ years of neglect.

Now, if we're talking about better signaling equipment, more efficient station layouts, a better metro card, etc, then yes, I do think that's likely to happen in the near future. However, we shouldn't really hold our breath, hoping that the entire system will ever look like a newer system (like Shanghai), or even like much of the Tube system, considering how little the farebox even funds MTA's operations - well under 50% - and that it's still politically unreasonable to push for greater funding for mass transit.

For the most part, passengers just want punctuality and clean cars. That, I think, can be achieved...

So...

I mean, I'm not meaning to be pessimistic, but one really needs to keep in mind what the agency is working with, financially.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 03:34 PM   #2452
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Quote:
And also, how bad is the overcrowding there compared to London's? The stats show that way more people use NYC's subway than London's underground, so for people who've been to both, does this fact make it more crowded or people just travel at different times?
One reason the NYC subway may have more passengers than London's Tube is the fact that the NYC subway never shuts down..never. The NYC subway runs 24/7/365.

The NYC subway was shut down during the 1965 ,'77 & 2003 blackouts and for several days after 09.11.2001..Hurricane Sandy caused a partial shutdown..I may have missed something...

I've not ridden the subway for a couple of years but to me it does not seem to be over crowded. Others that use it daily may have a different opinion.
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Old January 11th, 2014, 03:58 PM   #2453
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I think, that is why it is so dirty( because it runs 24 hours a day)...

P.s. My 2000 post!!!
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Old January 11th, 2014, 07:38 PM   #2454
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Any pictures of NYC Subway, during this "Polar Vortex" ? How overground sections ahve been working during this period of freezing and snowy weather ?

You can compare the dirtynes of NYC Subway with Paris one.
I know the result. Paris is now invaded by tags everywhere, where NYC has almost completely elimitated them at least inside and on trains.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 12:07 AM   #2455
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Quote:
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I think, that is why it is so dirty( because it runs 24 hours a day)...

P.s. My 2000 post!!!
Trust me.. it's not as dirty as it was from about 1970 to the late '80s.. not even close. Particularly the rolling stock.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 06:45 AM   #2456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sk327 View Post
I've wanted to make these questions for a long time:

Is there a plan to modernise the subway system in New York in the future?
Depends what you mean. They're putting in some provisions for automation on the 7 train right now, mostly experimental to see if it can work on the more complicated parts of the system. (The 7 runs entirely on its line, no interlining with any other trains, so it's really a closed system from a driving perspective.) NYC's definitely behind a lot of other cities in train automation.

Cleaning and renovation is slow going, but the system is a lot better than it used to be and continues to make incremental improvements. And much of rolling stock these days consists of quite new cars.

Quote:
And also, how bad is the overcrowding there compared to London's? The stats show that way more people use NYC's subway than London's underground, so for people who've been to both, does this fact make it more crowded or people just travel at different times?
There are some very overcrowded lines (the 6, and the Lexington Avenue lines in general, come to mind). However, overcrowding is not nearly so bad as London as the trains in NYC have much higher capacities. Trains are much wider and longer. They're actually usually less frequent in NYC--I think some London lines have headways somewhat under 2 minutes at peak times, whereas for NYC I think the 6 and 7 get down to about 2.5 minutes but many lines are much less frequent--but that is more than compensated for by the much greater capacity of individual trains.

24/7 makes some difference, but not a huge amount. There aren't that many riders late at night except at a few particularly busy nightlife locations.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 08:37 AM   #2457
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First off, Paris has no express services. All trains stop at every station. Paris is also rather behind on rolling stock. A vast majority of their stock is 1979 and older, whereas most of NYC's stock is mid-90s and newer.

Yes, NYC is further behind on automation, on the other hand. I think it will be some time before most of the NYC subway lines have ATO and PSDs. But no doubt that the 24/7/365 system will not decline anytime soon.

I think on the terms of vandalism, NYC does better on keeping stations and railcars free of grafitti. In Paris, their 1978 stock is constantly vandalized (their 1963 and 1968 stock aren't far behind), especially trains running on the more vulnerable 8 Line, where the eastern section is outdoor/at-grade. Scratchitti on the other hand, is becoming more and more problematic across many subway/metro systems. When you have a majority of railcars in NYC being stainless steel or aluminum, this can become a big problem if it isn't managed. So far, so good though.

Water intrusion and just overall dirty stations are a problem with many subways/metros. I think that NYC and Paris are at about the same level when it comes to this. My own observations of both systems show that even the well-maintained stations can get dirty quickly. I think one the worst of the stations in Paris is Porte de Vincennes, whereas one of the worst NYC stations is Chambers St BMT.

In terms of overcrowding, I would agree that the 6 Line in NYC is definitely overcrowded, and I think the 13 Line in Paris is not far behind. The problem with Paris' 13 Line is that the two northern branches cause a disparity in frequency, forcing commuters to have to wait longer for trains. There are also no immediate plans to increase the length of railcars because most of the stations are ill-equipped to handle trains longer than five cars. Unlike NYC, Paris was never able to undergo a system-wide station expansion that would have allowed for trains with seven to ten car trains. Only the 14 Line is capable of handling eight car trains.

For the record, here's a glimpse of a heavily vandalized 1978 stock train on the Paris 7 Line.
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Old January 12th, 2014, 10:43 AM   #2458
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Old January 12th, 2014, 10:45 AM   #2459
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[QUOTE=HARTride 2012;110441472] Paris is also rather behind on rolling stock. A vast majority of their stock is 1979 and older, whereas most of NYC's stock is mid-90s and newer.

To be fully accurate here is the age of Paris rolling stock for Metro lines.
The two last digits represent the two last digit of the year of design. Delivery is generally 4 - 5 years later

M1 MP 05
M2, M5, M9 MF 01
M3, M3bis MF 67 refurbished late 90s
M4 MP 89 CC cascaded from M1
M6 MP 73
M7, M8, M13 MF 77 M13 trains refurbished in late 90s
M7bis MF 88
M10, M12 MF 67
M11 MP 59 cascaded from M4
M14 MP 89 CA
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:34 AM   #2460
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Yes, but in terms of age, the following exist

MP 59 - Designed in 1959, entered service in 1963. Some trains refurbished during the early/mid 90s.
MF 67 - Designed in 1967, entered service from 1968 through 1973. Some trains refurbished during the 90s. Fate unknown.
MP 73 - Designed in 1973, entered service in 1974. Refurbished during the early 2000s.
MF 77 - Designed in 1977, entered service in 1978. Some trains refurbished during the 2000s.
MF 88 - Designed in 1988, entered service in 1993. Fate unknown, may see early retirement.
MP 89CC - Designed in 1989, entered service in 1997. Fate unknown, may either see a shift to the 6 or 11 Lines in 2019, or early retirment.
MP 89CA - Designed in 1989, entered service in 1998.
MF 01 - Designed in 2000, entered service in 2006 (though mass production began in 2008).
MP 05 - Designed in 2005, entered service in 2012.

The MP 14, likely to begin going into service about 2019/2020, will replace the MP 59 and MP 73 railcars. Nothing official has been announced yet of the fate of the MF 67 railcars.
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