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Old January 21st, 2015, 08:37 PM   #2881
Nexis
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Wouldn't it be better to add a branch to the Port Washington line of LIRR, so the LaGuardia train could go to Woodside? It's a much better transfer point (a bunch of LIRR lines, 7, <7>), and Port Washington line is lightly used. Maybe the trains could continue to Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal outside rush hour.

I don't think the cost warrants a Rail line. The current Bus Service does the job just fine and cheap... I rather see Cucmo throw money onto the Rockaway line restoration..
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Old January 21st, 2015, 10:13 PM   #2882
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But if they are really determined to go rail, wouldn't it be better like this than ending the line at Willets Point? Two trains per hour off-peak on the Port Washington line don't have much of a value as a transfer choice, and the 7 in the non-peak direction has too many stops from there to Manhatten.
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 02:18 AM   #2883
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I'd rather have it continue down the Van Wyck to Jamaica where it can hook into AirTrain JFK, and create an actual point-to-point service with the attendant economies of scale.
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 07:39 PM   #2884
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But if they are really determined to go rail, wouldn't it be better like this than ending the line at Willets Point? Two trains per hour off-peak on the Port Washington line don't have much of a value as a transfer choice, and the 7 in the non-peak direction has too many stops from there to Manhatten.
I haven't seen anyone else mention this possibility, but I think it actually makes the most sense. You're right that the Port Washington Line definitely has the capacity to allow more trains. But I doubt the Port Authority wants the MTA to control the train to the airport, and the MTA would never let the Port Authority run trains over their tracks; their provincialism would destroy this proposal.

Also, on your map, the Long Island City and Hunterspoint Avenue stations are a separate branch. Trains from Penn can't stop there. They merge in just north of Hunterspoint Avenue.
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 08:12 PM   #2885
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Recently came back from a trip to NY. Love the transport network, but how on earth is La Guardia not on it yet?
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 02:48 AM   #2886
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Recently came back from a trip to NY. Love the transport network, but how on earth is La Guardia not on it yet?
NIMBYs. They tried to extend the N/Q in Astoria to LaGuardia in the 90s, but a bunch of local residents didn't want the elevated train nearby.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 06:02 PM   #2887
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NIMBYs. They tried to extend the N/Q in Astoria to LaGuardia in the 90s, but a bunch of local residents didn't want the elevated train nearby.
They didn't want to disturb the tranquility of living next to an airport in the largest metro area in the country? People make me laugh.
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Old January 23rd, 2015, 10:12 PM   #2888
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They didn't want to disturb the tranquility of living next to an airport in the largest metro area in the country? People make me laugh.
You're obviously at a bit of a disconnect here, so allow me to explain.

The noise from an aircraft taking off a good distance away from a densely populated area (as airports are designed to be) is COMPLETELY different from an elevated metro system rolling over switches and rail joints @ 25-30 MPH about 40 feet from your apartment window. Believe me, it is DEAFENING. It is also MUCH more frequent than aircraft landings and takeoffs (every 3-5 min during rush hour, 5-10 min during the mid-day, and every 30 min overnight), and in the case of NYC, is 24/7. I worked at Queensboro Plaza over the summer, which is where the Astoria El Line splits off from the Flushing EL Line and heads north towards Astoria, so I would know.

So basically, while I am in the group that thinks an extension of the N from its current terminus to LaGuardia would be the best option for a mass transit connection to the airport, I can somewhat sympathize with the NIMBYs in the area.
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Old January 24th, 2015, 04:49 PM   #2889
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You're obviously at a bit of a disconnect here, so allow me to explain.

The noise from an aircraft taking off a good distance away from a densely populated area (as airports are designed to be) is COMPLETELY different from an elevated metro system rolling over switches and rail joints @ 25-30 MPH about 40 feet from your apartment window. Believe me, it is DEAFENING. It is also MUCH more frequent than aircraft landings and takeoffs (every 3-5 min during rush hour, 5-10 min during the mid-day, and every 30 min overnight), and in the case of NYC, is 24/7. I worked at Queensboro Plaza over the summer, which is where the Astoria El Line splits off from the Flushing EL Line and heads north towards Astoria, so I would know.

So basically, while I am in the group that thinks an extension of the N from its current terminus to LaGuardia would be the best option for a mass transit connection to the airport, I can somewhat sympathize with the NIMBYs in the area.
Good points, but I've always been more convinced they just didn't want to see an elevated line, since noise can be mitigated.

To that effect, do the current techniques employed to lessen that disturbance actually work?

As an anecdote, Shanghai has an - mostly - elevated circumferential line in the center, and it seems they tried to consider noise abatement (then again, Shanghai's trains are a bit quieter anyways).

I've always wondered how effective it really is.



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Old January 24th, 2015, 07:22 PM   #2890
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That's because Shanghai built their elevated line out of concrete which is more absorbent of the kinetic vibrations caused by the trains, while New York has a very old elevated system that is made mostly from iron and steel and metal tends to make noise as shear stress is placed upon it.
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Old January 24th, 2015, 07:28 PM   #2891
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Well.. aren't we talking about a new alignment?
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Old January 24th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #2892
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Ya but just saying the good people of Astoria aren't the most open minded of people. If they think elevated train they probably thought it would be like the 7 or N/R. Also there is the matter of the all mighty property value and because of the aforementioned reasons a zoning change that would necessitate a subway extension does not seem likely
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Old January 25th, 2015, 03:12 PM   #2893
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For LaGuardia, an AirTrain that will save almost no one any time, Yonah Freemark

"Itís hard to imagine how the state can justify spending half a billion dollars on a transit project that will increase travel times for most people."

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Old January 25th, 2015, 04:14 PM   #2894
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Wow. A politcian pretending to be a transit planner. So shocked!
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Old January 25th, 2015, 08:43 PM   #2895
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Wow. A politcian pretending to be a transit planner. So shocked!
yeah, tell that to Republicans
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Old January 25th, 2015, 08:55 PM   #2896
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Eh NY republicans tend not to be that bad
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Old January 25th, 2015, 09:11 PM   #2897
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That 1990s proposal was first put forward in the 1930s.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #2898
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Ya it was proposed by LaGuardia to Connect the Airport he was Building to the rest of the city, and I don't know the reasons why it wasn't funded but probably Good old Bobby M. was involved and Giuliani proposed it because was a good idea and it still is!
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Old January 25th, 2015, 09:45 PM   #2899
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i thought the original reason for it's killing had something to do with Cab unions, but I may be mistaken.
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Old January 26th, 2015, 05:01 AM   #2900
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Eh NY republicans tend not to be that bad
They can't be; otherwise they'd never win elections lol. Urban Republicans are almost always moderates.
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