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Old April 4th, 2007, 05:20 PM   #321
Songoten2554
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does anybody here has a comment about this great project and all the massive projects that are going on in NYC
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Old April 5th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #322
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2nd Ave. Subway Platforms May Get Glass Walls and Sliding Doors



Transit officials are considering a system for the subway line employing a double set of sliding doors, much
like those on the AirTrain at Kennedy Airport.



By WILLIAM NEUMAN
Published: April 5, 2007

The Second Avenue subway, as it is envisioned by planners at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, will have many modern features that set it apart, including roomier, brightly lighted stations with wider platforms that are cooled in the summertime and are fully accessible to the handicapped.

But as the authority prepares for a groundbreaking ceremony next week, planners are considering one innovation that would make the Second Avenue subway radically different from every other line in the city: mechanical doors on the edge of the platforms that would open to allow passengers to move on and off the trains.

The doors, set into a wall of glass or metal, would create a floor-to-ceiling barrier, sealing off the track and tunnel area from the platforms and altering forever the daily experience of waiting passengers. Gone would be the rush of air and thunder, gone the visceral thrill as many tons of steel hurtle by at high speed, just inches away, all replaced by the hygienic interface of technology.

Several subway systems in Europe and Asia use the doors, known as platform edge doors or platform screen doors
.

They are also used in this country in many airport shuttle train systems, including the AirTrain at Kennedy International Airport.

Ernest Tollerson, the transportation authority’s policy director, said Tuesday that the authority was studying the feasibility of incorporating the platform edge doors into designs for the Second Avenue subway.

The doors, he said, could allow substantial energy savings in the station cooling systems, which would use cold water to chill air blown into the stations and reduce temperatures by about 10 degrees. With open platforms, the hot air from the tunnels would mix with the cooled air in the stations. With doors on the platform edge, the heat from the tunnels would be at least partly blocked and the cooling system could operate more efficiently.

“They have a lot of advantages in B.T.U. savings and things like that,” Mr. Tollerson said. “They improve the station environment. It’s a design element worth looking at.”

He described the initiative as part of a larger effort to consider the environmental impact of the authority’s operations.

“There is an interest in thinking about and figuring out — if we’re going to live in a carbon-constrained world and we’re going to think about the ecological footprint of a global city and a global region — where does the M.T.A. fit in all that and what should the M.T.A. be thinking about and doing,” Mr. Tollerson said.

Engineers working on the new line’s design had previously considered the platform doors, but the concept was rejected because of concerns about its cost and the way it would affect subway operations. It was opposed by Lawrence G. Reuter, who was president of New York City Transit from 1996 until February 2007.

Last month, however, planners at the authority asked the engineering firms that have been designing the subway line to take another look at incorporating platform doors.

Mr. Tollerson said the review was not related to Mr. Reuter’s departure. He said the idea came out of discussions he had with Mysore L. Nagaraja, the authority’s president of capital construction.

Mr. Nagaraja said that besides the potential energy savings, there were safety benefits as well.

With the door system in place, people could not fall or jump in front of trains. He also said the doors could reduce track fires, because people could not throw trash onto the tracks.

The doors would be likely to add to the cost of building the new subway line, which has a budget of $3.8 billion. Mr. Nagaraja said engineers would estimate those costs, and the degree to which they would be offset by savings in cooling expenses.

Mr. Nagaraja said that in earlier discussions of the platform edge doors, transit officials had expressed concerns about long-term maintenance requirements.

One concern is that most if not all train systems that use platform edge doors also incorporate a system of computerized train operation in which trains stop at exactly the same spot every time, and are always lined up properly with the platform doors. The authority has been working to develop a computerized system for New York subways, but it is still a long-term goal. With the current system, the doors would have to be designed to operate with trains controlled by human drivers.

The first phase of the new subway line is to include four stations, from 96th Street to 63rd Street, and is scheduled to be finished in 2013.

Mr. Reuter, the former transit agency president, said that in the 1980s and again in the 1990s, the possibility of retrofitting the entire subway system with platform edge doors was discussed at the authority. Both times, he said, the idea was discarded, largely because of difficulties in integrating the doors with the existing system. When the idea arose again in planning for the Second Avenue subway, Mr. Reuter said, he opposed it.

“I definitely discouraged it because it’s a cost item and it’s a maintenance item,” said Mr. Reuter, who now works in Miami as a senior vice president of Parsons Brinckerhoff, an engineering firm. “It’s only going to apply in a few stations. What good is it going to do if you can’t adapt it to the rest of the system? I didn’t see any benefit, plus it’s going to cost extra money to maintain them.”


Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company
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Old April 5th, 2007, 10:17 AM   #323
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good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.
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Old April 5th, 2007, 03:07 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaboyUSA View Post
good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.
NY is one of the mother subways... I think it's more probably those in shanghai made a trip to NYC to see how to do things whilst looking at what can be improved upon.
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Old April 5th, 2007, 09:27 PM   #325
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good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.
How big is the Shanghai system?
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Old April 7th, 2007, 04:38 AM   #326
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its finally coming. groundbreaking is april, 12. finally ny can have a civilized subway line with platform doors and air conditioning. the new platforms will not have those ugly obstructive columns. the platform will be open and column free.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 08:58 AM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaboyUSA View Post
good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.
Totally invalid comparison.
Should compare Shanghai with Taipei or Singapore.
I think Shanghai is very poorly managed compared to these two.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 09:09 AM   #328
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New York has a much older system, so it is unfair to compare it with newer lines elsewhere. They were designed for different purposes in different eras.

That being said, Shanghai's first 2 lines have aged quite badly. However, the new lines look very nice and sleek.
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Old April 8th, 2007, 03:06 PM   #329
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With the current system, the doors would have to be designed to operate with trains controlled by human drivers.
On the London Underground's Jubilee line extension the underground stations have platform edge screens and doors but the trains are still driven by humans, not computers, so it is possible.
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Old April 9th, 2007, 09:15 AM   #330
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Is That Finally the Sound of a 2nd Ave. Subway?


Mayor John V. Lindsay swung his pickax at a subway groundbreaking in 1972. Looking on, from left, were Percy E. Sutton, the Manhattan borough president; Senator Jacob K. Javits; John A. Volpe, United States secretary of transportation; and Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller.

By WILLIAM NEUMAN
Published: April 9, 2007
nytimes.com

The neckties are wide and the sideburns long, the pickaxes gleam in the sunlight. The governor thanks the president for providing money. The mayor jokes that “whatever is said about this project in the years to come, certainly no one can say that the city acted rashly or without due deliberation.”

The governor swings his pickax, but the pavement is too hard. A jackhammer is brought in to loosen things up. Now the governor and the mayor lay to with gusto.

The Second Avenue subway is born.

Or so it seemed at the time.

The sideburns were long and the neckties wide because it was 1972. The president was Nixon. The governor was Rockefeller. The mayor was Lindsay. And nearly 35 years later, no trains have ever run under Second Avenue.

But the line has had at least three groundbreakings.

On Thursday it will get another one.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer and a host of dignitaries will descend through a sidewalk hatch at Second Avenue and 102nd Street, a block south of the spot where Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller and Mayor John V. Lindsay held a groundbreaking in October 1972. They will go into a never-used section of a three-decade old subway tunnel, stretching from 105th Street to 99th Street. The governor will give a speech, hoist a pickax and take a few cracks at the concrete wall, symbolically beginning the construction where it left off in the 1970s.

“There used to be a saying in New York, ‘I should live so long,’ ” said William J. Ronan, the first chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, who presided over the groundbreaking in 1972.

“Well I sure hope they’ll do it this time because time is moving on,” Dr. Ronan, 94, who lives in Florida, said. “And of course it’s going to cost a fortune, more than back when we were going to do it. It was expensive enough then.”

Several factors actually suggest that this time the outcome may be different. The financing for the $3.8 billion project appears more certain than in the past, including an anticipated federal commitment to cover about a third of the cost.

And the plan is more measured. The goal is to build a first section of the subway with stops along Second Avenue at 96th, 86th and 72nd Streets and at 63rd Street and Lexington Avenue. It is intended to operate as an extension of the Q line and is expected to open in 2013. Once further financing is secured, later phases of construction will extend the line north to 125th Street and south to Lower Manhattan.

It was September 1929 when the city formally announced plans to build the Second Avenue subway, running the length of the East Side and into the Bronx. The cost of digging the Manhattan portion of the tunnel was estimated at $99 million, although there would be additional expenses, including the cost of real estate and equipment.

The Second Avenue plans were part of an ambitious expansion to add a 100-mile network with an overall estimated cost of about $800 million. But within a few years, during the Great Depression, planning for the new line came to a halt.

The plans were revived during World War II. In 1951, voters approved a measure that allowed the city to raise $500 million for transit improvements, with the expectation that most of it would go to build the new line. But the money was used to fix up the existing system. No work was performed on Second Avenue.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority took over the city’s subway system in 1968. Dr. Ronan began championing an ambitious range of projects, including the Second Avenue subway, from Whitehall Street to 138th Street in the Bronx. In 1968 the subway line bore a remarkably modest price tag of $335 million, but by the time of the groundbreaking in 1972, it had risen to $1 billion.

That ceremony was preserved in an 8 millimeter film shot by Robert A. Olmsted, who was a top planner at the transportation authority.

In the film, the sun is shining brightly, although some of the men are wearing coats and fedoras. There is a holiday air, and the mayor and the governor are all smiles. The two have been feuding for years, but on this day, they manage to keep their pickaxes aimed at the street.

“We were optimistic,” recalled Mr. Olmsted, who is 82. “It looked like we were going to get something done.”

Dr. Ronan recalled feeling that, “at long last, we’re going to have the Second Avenue subway.”

“It was a great day when they got to the groundbreaking,” he said. “Everybody was congratulating everybody. It got good play. It should have.”

Sidney J. Frigand, who was a spokesman at the authority in 1972, said he was more skeptical, especially about how the project would be financed. “There were a lot of flaws that had to be ironed out, and I sensed that it wouldn’t proceed as rapidly as we hoped,” he said.

Last week, a reporter described the film to Mr. Frigand, including the portion where the governor’s pickax failed to make the desired impact and the jackhammer had to be called in. “That’s the perils of groundbreaking,” Mr. Frigand, 81, said.

In October 1973, a year after that ceremony, another groundbreaking was held for the start of work on the downtown section, at Canal Street. Mayor Lindsay had gone bareheaded the previous year but now, according to a report in The New York Times, he wore a hard hat and talked ominously about “brinksmanship,” suggesting the city could not afford to keep building the subway without a large infusion of federal money. The cost had reached $1.3 billion.

This time, the pavement had been broken up in advance. After the speeches, The Times reported, the mayor attacked the loosened paving blocks with his pick.

In July 1974, Mayor Abraham D. Beame attended a groundbreaking at Second Avenue and Second Street. He went at the pavement with a jackhammer. The plan was to build the subway piecemeal, contracting out short, disconnected sections.

A year later the city was near bankruptcy; Mayor Beame called a halt to further construction. The stretch of tunnel he broke ground on was never built, although three other sections were finished and sealed. They included the two that Mayor Lindsay inaugurated, from 99th Street to 105th Street and Canal Street to Chatham Square, and a section from 110th Street to 120th Street.

Edward I. Koch was a congressman in 1972, and he appears in the film of the groundbreaking, although he said last week that he did not remember the event.

“I have no recollection of that day,” said Mr. Koch, who became mayor in 1978. “I do have a recollection that the Second Avenue subway — the first shovel went into the ground when God created the earth.”






Video
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Old April 9th, 2007, 09:22 AM   #331
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map does not include all of the subway stops
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Old April 9th, 2007, 07:18 PM   #332
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at least finally its going to begin for the pride of NYC and for the long Delayed construction to finally to begin and like they said the money is secured for the further expansion as well so everything is going ok

anyways i think the second ave subway will look the most modern and futuristic of all the subways that are running in NYC it will mirror other systems that have modern to futuristic lines like

London: the jubliee line extension project
Paris: line 14 Meteor
Tokyo: odeo and Line 13 (2008)
Los Angeles: LA Metro Red and Purple extension to the beach (very soon)
there are others but this is what i listed

anyways correct me if i am wrong
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Old April 9th, 2007, 10:58 PM   #333
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what do all of you think?? postive or negative thoughts??
How can anyone have negative thoughts? Second Avenue Line plans are really a great thing. And I believe those platform screen doors will also turn out to be a good thing despite the concerns about cost, maintenance, and door alignment, because about 26 other subways of the world have them already and some more are planning them.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #334
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New City Transit Chief Slated To Start Today
Special to the Sun
April 11, 2007

A former vice president of the city's bus system is scheduled to become president of New York City Transit today.

Howard Roberts, 67, was appointed yesterday by the CEO of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Elliot Sander, to head the agency that oversees the city's subways and buses. Mr. Sander worked under Mr. Roberts in the 1980s in the MTA's bus division.

Transit advocates say they hope that Mr. Roberts's bus background will make him a proponent of implementing faster bus lanes, known as Bus Rapid Transit, in all five boroughs.

The former president of New York City Transit, Lawrence Reuter, stepped down from the post last month after 11 years in the job.
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Old April 12th, 2007, 07:51 PM   #335
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great news finally the second ave subway has started construction for the longest time since the 1970's its amazing now it finally has broken ground and its cool that this will be the one of the grandest projects of NYC and NJ as well as the other projects

finally it has come true a major subway system expanded since for a long time go NYC
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Old April 12th, 2007, 08:11 PM   #336
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How can anyone have negative thoughts? Second Avenue Line plans are really a great thing. And I believe those platform screen doors will also turn out to be a good thing despite the concerns about cost, maintenance, and door alignment, because about 26 other subways of the world have them already and some more are planning them.
You should soon incude Paris metro line 1 & line 13.
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Old April 13th, 2007, 09:02 PM   #337
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As I have to say, it's about damn time, this should have been built decades ago.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 06:04 AM   #338
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What's the rationale for tunneling an entirely new subway line only a few blocks away from Lexington Ave.?
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Old April 16th, 2007, 07:16 AM   #339
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That line is getting too overcrowded, and this new line would relieve it.

Plus, it's being built in a rich place
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 06:37 AM   #340
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Second Ave. Subway Lurches Forward
New Yorkers Have Waited Nearly 90 Years for the Oft-Promised East Side Line

22 April 2007
The Washington Post

New York is a city of transit myths: Alligators live in the subway tunnels. A man died on the train, but no one noticed. Yeah, I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.

Someday there will be a Second Avenue subway line.

That subway line, first proposed in 1920, has been repeatedly planned and abandoned. It has become New York's longest-running municipal joke, its partially built, unused tunnels a hollow promise of economic growth snaking under the East Side of Manhattan.

But a groundbreaking ceremony this month -- the line's fourth -- has relaunched construction on what would be the first New York subway line to be built in more than 70 years. After the four phases of construction are completed, the Second Avenue train is to shuttle from Lower Manhattan to Spanish Harlem and link some of Manhattan's wealthiest neighborhoods and some of its poorest.

The Second Avenue subway has become a metaphor for the city's grand ambitions and its inability to get things done. Its status has marked the city's ragged cycles of boom and bust, each optimistic period causing officials to haul out the subway plans and each recession prompting them to be shelved.

"As goes the Second Avenue subway, so goes New York," said Daniel L. Doctoroff, the city's deputy mayor for economic development. He spoke at the groundbreaking, which took place in a portion of the unused Second Avenue tunnel that had been sealed off -- a pristine, pale cement hollow beneath 99th Street.

Now, as New York is being reborn as a boomtown -- and its subway is no longer perceived as a lawless place of muggings, graffiti, broken doors and smashed lights -- the Second Avenue line is having another revival.

"This time it's for real," said Elliot G. Sander, executive director of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the subways.

Transportation analysts say planners want to keep pace with the growing city. Subway ridership last year was 1.4 billion, its highest since 1952.

It will take $3.8 billion, mostly secured in federal and state funds, for the first phase of construction, extending the existing Q train route along Second Avenue from 63rd Street to 96th. This is due to be completed by 2013.

The first Second Avenue line, an elevated train, cast a dark shadow onto the street below and spewed out cinder, soot and noise. As subways replaced the "Els" on several north-south routes, Second Avenue was supposed to follow suit.

In 1929, plans for a Second Avenue subway were revived -- months before the stock market crash -- then were shelved because of the Great Depression.

The Second Avenue El was dismantled in wartime 1942, and plans for a subway line were resurrected. The destruction of the Els was cast with historical import, as a false rumor spread that the Japanese bought the scrap and used it for bombs to rain down on Pearl Harbor. In 1951, a measure passed permitting the city to raise $500 million, mainly to build the Second Avenue line. But the money disappeared into repairs for the existing subway.

Then the MTA took over the city's subways in 1968 and pushed for a Second Avenue expansion of the system.

When a groundbreaking finally took place on a sunny October day in 1972, Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller joked that "no one can say that the city acted rashly." Further ceremonies followed in 1973 and 1974 for different construction locations. But the city's fiscal crisis in 1974 again braked expansion, leaving useless, disconnected stretches of tunnel.

Those sealed-off tunnels have to be maintained, at a cost of at least $20,000 a year, because they support the streets above, said Peter G. Cafiero, acting chief of operations planning for the MTA.

The tunnels, like any good myth, have found their way into art. In a comic play by Chad Beckim, the subway line catches three residents off-guard in gentrifying East Harlem and symbolically runs over them. One novel warns that near the Second Avenue tunnels are vampires; another book says Viking ships.

New Yorkers have suggested installing a mushroom farm or a wine cellar in the tunnels. (Former mayor Edward I. Koch said he'd rather bet on the mushroom harvest than on the completion of the subway.) In the early 1980s, the MTA announced it would rent the tunnels to any imaginative entrepreneur, and one company sought to use the space as "the world's longest filing cabinet."

But none of this solved the East Side's needs for transportation.

Urban planners and historians say the lack of a Second Avenue line has actually affected the face of the city.

The East Village and the Lower East Side -- districts settled by immigrant Jews and later Poles, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans -- remained poor tenement neighborhoods partly for lack of a subway, said Kenneth T. Jackson, a professor of urban history at Columbia University. Ditto for Second Avenue north of the United Nations at 42nd Street, he said.

"The spine of elite settlement runs up the center of the island," said Jackson. "In New York, you need to be attached to the subway system to justify high density and high rents."

While Manhattan's West Side has three subway lines, the East Side has only one, the overcrowded Lexington Avenue line, which crams in 1.5 million riders on a weekday, 30 percent of the system's ridership -- more riders than the entire rail systems of cities such as Washington, Los Angeles and Miami.

To ease the crush, officials have looked back in time and considered rebuilding a trolley line or encouraging an East River commuter ferry service, which a century ago transported millions a year. But then plans focused anew on the subway, which will eventually extend north to Harlem and south to the lower tip of Manhattan at Hanover Square.

"The history is rumors," said Maria Sorobay, 77, who has lived on Second Avenue for 35 years but is not sure she'll ever ride its subway line. "It's a good thing I like to walk."
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