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Old March 28th, 2016, 03:13 AM   #3621
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Old March 28th, 2016, 03:58 AM   #3622
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BRAVO!!!!!

BRAVO!!!!!
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Old March 29th, 2016, 04:52 AM   #3623
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"New York City has the best subway system in the world."


Photo by: Office of the Governor

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Old March 29th, 2016, 07:46 AM   #3624
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He looks like sir toppam hat on Titanic as he sees the flood waters approaching.

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Old March 29th, 2016, 06:24 PM   #3625
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F Train via the G Line Action

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Old March 30th, 2016, 10:40 PM   #3626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsmartman View Post
The Pride of Financial America

Thanks for this video. Really enjoy such pieces. Where you see everything neat and clean. If you know what I mean. Haha.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 01:02 PM   #3627
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Why does New York have the crappiest Subway Cars I've ever laid eyes on. Now I'm not hating on NYC I absolutely love the city. It's just it's subway system is so filthy and less sophisticated than the likes of London, Berlin, Paris, Tokyo, Seoul, and etc...

Why is it that the richest city in the world can't spend 1 billion dollars to modernize it's subway cars???? They could even phase it out in 3-5 years so it costs them less per year (around 350 million a year).

Also I'm 100% sure it won't cost 1 billion dollars, more likely in the 300 million dollar range but it supports my case even more
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Old March 31st, 2016, 04:25 PM   #3628
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New York IS replacing its subway cars as fast as it can. There have been new cars almost constantly on order since 2000.

I'm not sure you appreciate just how big the NYC Subway is. Each of those orders (none of which have replaced each other) has been in the billion-dollar range. We're talking about a couple thousand subway cars per order here, and if you price each one at $750,000, then you are looking at a LOT of money.

London and Paris have fleets that are similarly big and therefore of mixed ages. The MS 61 cars on Paris' RER are only now being retired after having been in service since 1969.

New York has some of the most rigorous operating conditions of any subway in the world. Trains operate around the clock (neither London nor Tokyo do for comparison), and there are both very short segments between stations and long stretches of express running. Trains have to climb hills and run through the weather near the ocean (one line runs on a bridge across Jamaica Bay).

Back in the 1960s and 1970s, the subway tried to launch radically advanced (for the time), very expensive, rolling stock into service without extensive prototype testing. The less-than-optimal results, combined with earlier generations of failed prototypes, has lead to a "slow but steady" approach to rolling stock improvements. London and Paris also have similarly conservative design philosophies in their rolling stock fleets. Considering that all three systems are over 100 years old, and have resulting idiosyncrasies, this is somewhat to be expected.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 05:20 PM   #3629
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Spot on 00Zy99..spot on.

I think the main thing most outsiders looking in at the NYC subway do not realize is this as posted by 00Zy99;

Quote:
New York has some of the most rigorous operating conditions of any subway in the world. Trains operate around the clock (neither London nor Tokyo do for comparison)
Around the clock means the system is operational 24 hours a day. seven days a week. 365 days a year..
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Old March 31st, 2016, 06:32 PM   #3630
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Wiki has an excellent page about the rolling stock of the NYC Subway;

New York City Subway Rolling Stock...|...Wikipedia

This page will tell anyone even more information on the NYC Subway Rolling stock;

NYC Subway Current Fleet
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Old March 31st, 2016, 07:19 PM   #3631
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I think, in particular, his original comments are regarding the particular aesthetic of the rolling stock (exhibited by many other agencies across the country).

People tend to see aluminum/chrome skinned trains as antiquated, to say nothing of the refusal to adopt more streamlined profiles.

This, of course, is a matter of taste and is often conflated with notions of "modernization," which I find confusing.

Then again, this is why I don't understand why the MTA won't adopt an improved aesthetic for the rolling stock (probably has to do with established suppliers and the need to accomodate ancient signalling and other equipment).

Psychologically, I believe it would better serve as a symbol to passengers that tangible progress is being made. As it stands, people often miss how new some of these trains actually are...
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Old March 31st, 2016, 07:43 PM   #3632
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The steel is a cold and sterile look. New York is cold enough.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 08:23 PM   #3633
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"streamlined" trains would mean a loss in capacity. A small one, but on a system like NYC, every drop counts.

I have heard numerous comments on the new trains being good-looking and modern.

The appearance was chosen for being durable, low-maintenance, and easy to clean.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 08:26 PM   #3634
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The color and shape just speaks old and antique to me. Even if they're a few years old. No way in the world I'd ever agree to pay 750 grand for terrible looking subway cars like that. We are being embarrassed by many modern cities. Are they new sure okay but do they look that way? Absolutely not unless you look at it from the interior view.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 08:30 PM   #3635
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MTA knows they've got you in the pocket. The system is at capacity at times and by some metrics. They don't have to people please. Easy to clean = sterile. Exactly my point. The system is utilitarian. The quality is high they just don't do gimmicks. How about the giant pensions and Union fees that take away half or more of the ticket price, was just in the news. Much higher expense than other world systems, including first world countries. Anyone wanna debunk or rationalize that?
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Old March 31st, 2016, 08:32 PM   #3636
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Like I said, the shape is dictated by the need to maximize space within the clearances available, which in turn were created 100 years ago or more. There is nothing that can be done about it short of completely re-digging the subway system.

As for the color, well, that's your opinion. I happen to think that the new rolling looks quite chic and modern. Maybe its an age thing. I'm in my twenties (roughly).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami High Rise View Post
MTA knows they've got you in the pocket. The system is at capacity at times and by some metrics. They don't have to people please.
The public be d***ed, in other words? Yes, the system is at capacity at some points. But that doesn't mean that they don't have to keep the people happy. The subway is a reflection of the health of the city, and represents one of its faces to the world and to itself. It has to be at least somewhat decent.

Quote:
Easy to clean = sterile. Exactly my point.
Of COURSE something can easily be sterilized if it is easy to clean. But really, the two do not necessarily conflate. I'll point you to the interior of Cincinnati Union Terminal for an example of that. And I happen to believe that the current interior designs are not sterile. Could they better? Perhaps. But do they need to be? Not really.

Quote:
The system is utilitarian. The quality is high they just don't do gimmicks.
THAT. IS. THE. POINT.

NYC is trying not to waste money on pointless gimmicks. They have a very big and important job to do, and they do it. End of story.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 10:38 PM   #3637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
I think, in particular, his original comments are regarding the particular aesthetic of the rolling stock (exhibited by many other agencies across the country).

People tend to see aluminum/chrome skinned trains as antiquated, to say nothing of the refusal to adopt more streamlined profiles.

....
I looked up Kawasaki metro/subway cars and I agree that they are not pretty. They aren't ugly either. I don't see what the big deal as long as the subway works.

.....as far as the subway being dirty. Ha...you younger fellows should have seen the NYC subway in the 70s into the early 90s.





The 1980s was a period of slow decline for the subways. Graffiti was everywhere, like on this 1960 R-27 car at Rockaway Parkway Yard.



Quote:
City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: BMT Brighton Line
Location: Avenue H
Route: M
Car: R-30 (St. Louis, 1961) 8517
Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 10/25/1976


Quote:
City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Location: DeKalb Avenue
Route: M
Car: R-27 (St. Louis, 1960) 8020
Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 10/6/1976


Quote:
City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Location: Coney Island/Stillwell Avenue
Route: M
Car: R-27 (St. Louis, 1960) 8179
Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 6/1/1976
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Old April 1st, 2016, 06:35 AM   #3638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
I looked up Kawasaki metro/subway cars and I agree that they are not pretty. They aren't ugly either. I don't see what the big deal as long as the subway works.

.....as far as the subway being dirty. Ha...you younger fellows should have seen the NYC subway in the 70s into the early 90s.
What I'm getting at is that people tend to view anything that isn't immediately recognizable as being new as being "un-modern" or "unclean".

I honestly have difficulty with understand what people mean when they talk about "modernizing" the rolling stock (because, for me, the actual signaling and other technologies are far more important); though, I think it's just that there's a weird preference for a particular aesthetic in trains in this country.

It is odd, but nothing more that that, to be honest.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 03:25 PM   #3639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austrian View Post
Thanks for this video. Really enjoy such pieces. Where you see everything neat and clean. If you know what I mean. Haha.
The second Wall Street station in the video was the original subway. They should have built two additional tracks to Downtown where the majority of business activities took place.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 04:49 PM   #3640
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Quote:
City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: IND 63rd Street
Location: 21st Street/Queensbridge
Route: F
Car: R-160A (Option 1) (Alstom, 2008-2009, 5 car sets) 9461
Photo by: Anthony J. Liccese
Date: 6/20/2013


Quote:
City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: IND 6th Avenue Line
Location: 2nd Avenue
Route: F
Car: R-160B (Option 2) (Kawasaki, 2009) 9917
Photo by: Richard Panse
Date: 12/5/2010


Quote:
City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: IRT East Side Line
Location: Brooklyn Bridge/City Hall
Route: 6
Car: R-142A (Primary Order, Kawasaki, 1999-2002) 7370
Photo by: David Pirmann
Date: 7/4/2001


Quote:
City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: IRT Woodlawn Line
Location: 161st Street/River Avenue (old..Yankee Stadium)
Route: 4
Car: R-142 (Option Order, Bombardier, 2002-2003) 7171
Photo by: David-Paul Gerber
Date: 3/15/2008
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