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Old January 6th, 2017, 10:02 PM   #4161
streetscapeer
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I think I agree with you that sending Phase II to 3rd Avenue-149 Street is a better option, but I disagree with your assessment that a "125th Street Crosstown is ABSOLUTELY not needed." A crosstown train above 59th St is indeed needed, it's just that perhaps further relief of the the Lex lines might be needed a bit more.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 11:26 PM   #4162
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See two posts above: A multiple-branch Bronx system is needed. THAT's why a 125th Street crosstown line would be folly-the multiple Bronx lines will consume all available capacity. And there is a proposal to have a reverse junction at 63rd Street, allowing trains from Queens to turn down 2nd Ave towards downtown Manhattan (the 63rd St. tunnels have a provision for this).
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Old January 6th, 2017, 11:40 PM   #4163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
the multiple Bronx lines will consume all available capacity.
Given the current Division B line in the Bronx runs at 60% of what the QB Express runs at, I find that hard to believe. The SAS can still give a massive amount of capacity to the Bronx, even if a quarter of it turns off to serve Harlem. Improving B and D frequencies to the max would give 160% of what was lost by the Q going to 125th and 11th.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 11:42 PM   #4164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetscapeer View Post
I think I agree with you that sending Phase II to 3rd Avenue-149 Street is a better option, but I disagree with your assessment that a "125th Street Crosstown is ABSOLUTELY not needed." A crosstown train above 59th St is indeed needed, it's just that perhaps further relief of the the Lex lines might be needed a bit more.
It's not. What the MTA is planning to do is deprive an already deprived borough TWO branches of subway at the expense of a shopping district that can be walked. Traffic will be congested no matter what you do because the thoroughfare takes you straight to the Triboro, Third Avenue, and Willis Avenue Bridges. The crowding comes from the amount of vehicles on a street leading to a major crossing. A new subway will not fix that.

Relief of the Lex is not needed a bit more. It is absolutely needed. That trunk line between 125th Street and Bowling Green alone carries more passengers in a day than the entirety of the next largest U.S. subway system in the same period.

To say its needed a bit more is a huge understatement. But what kills me is how many people would prioritize a measly crosstown along 125th that won't have even a third of an effect on relief than sending both routes further uptown.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 11:45 PM   #4165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Given the current Division B line in the Bronx runs at 60% of what the QB Express runs at, I find that hard to believe. The SAS can still give a massive amount of capacity to the Bronx, even if a quarter of it turns off to serve Harlem. Improving B and D frequencies to the max would give 160% of what was lost by the Q going to 125th and 11th.
*Sorry for the double post, this popped up after.

The D can't be upped because it shares trackage with the A, B, and N. DeKalb Junction is the true limiter of how many trains the D can run. So that's out of the question. And the B and D at rush hour are severely crowded as a result. As I already said, a Third Avenue extension would not only help the Lex, but the 6th, 7th, and 8th Avenue lines as well.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 12:53 AM   #4166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetscapeer View Post
I think I agree with you that sending Phase II to 3rd Avenue-149 Street is a better option, but I disagree with your assessment that a "125th Street Crosstown is ABSOLUTELY not needed." A crosstown train above 59th St is indeed needed, it's just that perhaps further relief of the the Lex lines might be needed a bit more.
If you want to be pedantic about it, the 2 between 96 and 149-GC can serve as a poor man' crosstown. As I mentioned earlier, building 104/CPW on the 2/3 to get to 8th Avenue would help this case. Better still if they rebuild 103 on the 8th Avenue line to add express platforms.

Would it be possible to build an S-curve out of 125/Lex on the SAS to 3rd Avenue? And I don't really think it's going to be that much more expensive to build a cross-river tunnel with a TBM. Though given the MTA's well-known problems with funding, short of personal intervention by President Trump, I wouldn't expect them to be able to finish the SAS, let alone pull off a 3rd Avenue Line.

This is just me thinking, and it might be VERY unpopular, but how about having the 6 run express in the peak direction during rush hours (albeit on the local tracks), in effect forcing UES and Harlem passengers onto the SAS? That way, the Lex would be dedicated to Bronx passengers. I think that's what the MTA were trying to do - take the Manhattan load off the Lex so*it can serve Bronx passengers better.

But then again, hey, I don't live in New York, what do I know.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, according to the rated capacity of an R142 vs an R160 as listed on Wikipedia, a B Division train can probably carry about 30-40% more than an A Division train, so you'd need lesser B Division trains to achieve the same throughput as the Lex local.
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Last edited by luacstjh98; January 7th, 2017 at 01:30 AM.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 12:55 AM   #4167
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L train CBTC screen operation (read the video description for more info):

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Old January 7th, 2017, 01:21 AM   #4168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTA1992 View Post
The D can't be upped because it shares trackage with the A, B, and N.
The E runs 150% of the frequency, sharing tracks with the F, M and C. The F also, sharing with the E, M and G. It works.

Also the 15-10tph A-D split can't be helpful, nor the 7.5-10tph splits with the other two lines. Upping the D would help it mesh with the other lines easier.
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DeKalb Junction is the true limiter of how many trains the D can run. So that's out of the question.
Far far easier to sort than building a second branch of the SAS in the Bronx, as 00Zy99 wants. It's entirely a signalling and timetabling problem, rather than a construction issue.

And with the non-meshing nature of the D with the N and B, I'd argue that more D trains might make it easier to sort.
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And the B and D at rush hour are severely crowded as a result.
Here's me wondering why all the frequencies are low and uneven with each other, finding out that the frequencies are set so each line has equal amounts of crowding unless the line is genuinely maxed out, and then getting confused by this.

Upping the D to 15tph would mean going from 17.5 to 22.5 - a 29% increase. Demand then for 30tph, rather than 22.5, on the Third Ave (or wherever the T goes in the Bronx) is then far less.
Quote:
As I already said, a Third Avenue extension would not only help the Lex, but the 6th, 7th, and 8th Avenue lines as well.
And as I said, "The SAS can still give a massive amount of capacity to the Bronx, even if a quarter of it turns off to serve Harlem." If you want it to go up 3rd Avenue, then there's nothing stopping that.


I rather liked the idea, BTW, of ending phase 2 at the 6 train in the Bronx, rather than at 125/Lex. However, I think that it would make phase 2 more expensive, and thus less likely to be built. Also, I'm not sure whether a train every 8 minutes is attractive for those who'd you'd want to change - you'd need phase 3 for it to work.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 02:15 AM   #4169
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What plans I've seen for a 125th St. Line have it running under the East River to LaGuardia. With some sort of tie in to both IND lines and a new third line on the West Side.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 02:32 AM   #4170
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What plans I've seen for a 125th St. Line have it running under the East River to LaGuardia. With some sort of tie in to both IND lines and a new third line on the West Side.
That wasn't a real plan , it was a fantasy by some rich guy with too much time on his hands..
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Old January 7th, 2017, 03:39 AM   #4171
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I thought the East River/La Guardia part was in the far reaches of the pipeline, at least.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 03:41 AM   #4172
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I thought the East River/La Guardia part was in the far reaches of the pipeline, at least.
No , the line would go out 3rd Ave EL in The Bronx with a spur to Throgs neck or Soundview...
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Old January 7th, 2017, 04:44 AM   #4173
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No, I was talking about a separate line from Harlem to La Guardia.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 08:33 AM   #4174
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It's not.
It is. Lots of crosstown busses get caught up in the 125th st traffic that, as you mentioned, is not going away! As a Washington Heights resident I would love to one day not have to spend 30+ min going crosstown on 125th during rush hour.

Quote:
What the MTA is planning to do is deprive an already deprived borough TWO branches of subway at the expense of a shopping district that can be walked. Traffic will be congested no matter what you do because the thoroughfare takes you straight to the Triboro, Third Avenue, and Willis Avenue Bridges. The crowding comes from the amount of vehicles on a street leading to a major crossing. A new subway will not fix that.
I AGREEEEE that it should go to the Bronx. Did you not read that? Or are you too wound up by the fact that I merely mentioned that other routes are needed too (although to a lesser degree). Jesus, chill out.

Last edited by streetscapeer; January 7th, 2017 at 08:46 AM.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 07:11 PM   #4175
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Photos from forgotten-ny.com of the derelict Nassau station on the Staten Island Railway in the remote southwest corner of Staten Island. The decrepit station, along with its similarly dilapidated sister station Atlantic, will close some time this year after the new Arthur Kill station opens in this neighborhood.



























source: http://forgotten-ny.com/2017/01/sout...rville-part-1/
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Old January 9th, 2017, 08:20 PM   #4176
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"... to open this year", so not in January then? Another push back?
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Old January 9th, 2017, 08:49 PM   #4177
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There haven't been any announcements. The MTA can probably get away with never opening it.

Keep in mind the natives are hostile to the governor. This isn't like the Upper East Side. He won't be going down there to attempt to accelerate completion. It's too far away, and there's no political gain to be had.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 10:49 PM   #4178
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To be fair Staten Island south of the northern tip around the SIF terminal looks and feels and basically is a random generic American suburb somehow in the limits of the mighty New York City.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 10:59 PM   #4179
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I would say that area looks like a generic mid-sized Rust Belt business district, complete with a depressing streetscape and a minor-league ballpark. The rest of Staten is basically New Jersey.
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Old January 10th, 2017, 02:45 AM   #4180
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I think Tottenville on the SIR is an odd station too. Will it stay open or will they close it as well? There should be a water taxi to Perth Amboy.


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To be fair Staten Island south of the northern tip around the SIF terminal looks and feels and basically is a random generic American suburb somehow in the limits of the mighty New York City.
It's kind of weird to think a small corner of NYC proper has 15-20 year old greenfield suburban development. How long ago was there any agriculture on Staten Island, maybe 40 years ago?
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