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Old February 24th, 2017, 03:30 AM   #4241
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"MTA reports NYC subway ridership drops for the first time since 2009"

http://ny.curbed.com/2017/2/22/14702...p-decline-2016
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Old February 24th, 2017, 07:56 AM   #4242
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A tiny drop, but it is symbolic, that amid nothing but gains of all sort all around in the city, a drop. Despite a "great new station" at Hudson Yards, etc. It's bottom of the barrel ridership wasn't enough to offset it.

SAS for 2017 probably will be, and would have been, with the 6 million ridership loss equal to under 20,000 riders a weekday, much less than the SAS net gains (counting Lex losses) even so far.

Unless service really deteriorates further this year, or some other uber revolution happens, this should just be a minor stat.
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Old February 24th, 2017, 05:47 PM   #4243
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I like how overcrowded trains were cited as one of the reasons for the drop. To paraphrase Yogi Berra, "Nobody rides the trains anymore; they're too crowded."
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Old February 24th, 2017, 06:23 PM   #4244
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Last week I waited 25 min for an F train and 20 min for an A train, at 1pm on a weekday. I wouldnt put up with that either, just sayin...
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Old February 24th, 2017, 11:27 PM   #4245
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However, the system has seen far worse days.

Riders didn't want a fare increase. State cut 65 million from MTA funds. Seems no one REALLY wants to pay for the better service.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:13 PM   #4246
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You can't ribbon cut better service
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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:14 PM   #4247
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And ya 2.75 is a bit much and raising it 25 every 2 years is a bit tough on people
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Old February 25th, 2017, 11:07 PM   #4248
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And ya 2.75 is a bit much and raising it 25 every 2 years is a bit tough on people
As a guy who literally just ended his stint in the homeless category, I know that as much as the next guy. I am, however, not ignorant to the fact that if we want better, we need to shell out for it. $2.75 is not much to me because I know the fare is subsidized and should be at least double what it is one way. I know that the fare only goes up every couple years because that was the terms the MTA needed to agree with when the State was bailed out during the recession. I know that another huge factor goes back to the creation of the 1913 Dual Systems Contracts. Within those contracts, aside from granting the IRt and BRT franchise rights for new subways and reconstruction of old ones, was to keep the fare at 5 cents. That fare could not be raised without government approval. Politicians were not going to risk their careers to raise the fare and as a result, the IRT and BRT went bankrupt in 1932 and 1923 respectively. The IND did not help matters and even after unification, it would still be another 8 years before the fare would be raised for the first time. By then it was too late and the real damage was finally realized when the city entered the 1970s.

My point is that yeah, the fare may seem high, but we've seen worse. If we want the fare to stay more static, the State and City, as well as the Feds, need to shell out more money.

The citizens are not crying to the right people and they are not demanding their needs. I personally think people have forgotten how much power they really have.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 11:23 PM   #4249
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For what you're getting, and for the financial status of New York and most of its people, $3 is not a lot for the main fare, there can be more reduced fares to those who actually need it.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 11:44 PM   #4250
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You can't ribbon cut better service
You can, but New York seems to have not learnt how to.

London has managed to make big deals about longer opening hours, longer trains, more frequent service. London Overground had to lower expectations with their takeover of some of Greater Anglia routes as the brand had picked up such a reputation for better service on lines where it was far easier to improve service from day 1 without much effort.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 02:22 AM   #4251
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You can, but New York seems to have not learnt how to.

London has managed to make big deals about longer opening hours, longer trains, more frequent service. London Overground had to lower expectations with their takeover of some of Greater Anglia routes as the brand had picked up such a reputation for better service on lines where it was far easier to improve service from day 1 without much effort.
They could have gotten Mayor de Blasio to ride the first W train and make a short speech on November 6, for one. Perhaps they could get him or the governor or some other big shot to go down to 34th/Hudson Yards and "inaugurate" CBTC on the 7/QBL/you get it. That's how you ribbon-cut better service.

However, from what research I've done, it doesn't help that the MTA have only been cutting service in the past years, not improving it. Service cuts aren't a cause for excitement, but service improvements are.
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Old February 26th, 2017, 09:29 AM   #4252
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However, from what research I've done, it doesn't help that the MTA have only been cutting service in the past years, not improving it. Service cuts aren't a cause for excitement, but service improvements are.
Absolutely. But there have been some improvements that haven't been new stations - you named two. There's also the M train (OK that was cuts that turned out popular). And the G-train extension to Church Street and more recent improvements.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #4253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
They could have gotten Mayor de Blasio to ride the first W train and make a short speech on November 6, for one. Perhaps they could get him or the governor or some other big shot to go down to 34th/Hudson Yards and "inaugurate" CBTC on the 7/QBL/you get it. That's how you ribbon-cut better service.

However, from what research I've done, it doesn't help that the MTA have only been cutting service in the past years, not improving it. Service cuts aren't a cause for excitement, but service improvements are.
The thing is, better service does require more money and more subway cars to make it happen. Where are all these cars going to be stored? We need more yard space. While the 38th Street Yard in Brooklyn can be converted from C Division to B Division easily, it's not that easy for others. I think the only yard right now that has been proposed to be expanded is Jamaica. I think they want to double its size. But they've wanted to do it since 1982 so I'm not sure how far along the current desire is.

We are not going to see better, non-CBTC service, until at least 2020 when the R211s are a year or two into delivery. The combination of open gangways (I mean, I highly doubt they are going to pass up that chance), and expanded fleet numbers will facilitate that.

The same is true for the bus system.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 05:29 PM   #4254
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The thing is, better service does require more money and more subway cars to make it happen. Where are all these cars going to be stored? We need more yard space. While the 38th Street Yard in Brooklyn can be converted from C Division to B Division easily, it's not that easy for others. I think the only yard right now that has been proposed to be expanded is Jamaica. I think they want to double its size. But they've wanted to do it since 1982 so I'm not sure how far along the current desire is.

We are not going to see better, non-CBTC service, until at least 2020 when the R211s are a year or two into delivery. The combination of open gangways (I mean, I highly doubt they are going to pass up that chance), and expanded fleet numbers will facilitate that.

The same is true for the bus system.
I was responding to

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You can't ribbon cut better service
I guess New Yorkers, like pretty much everyone else, want to see something concrete come out of fare hikes and whatnot. What's the point of buying new subway trains, or new yard space, or whatever, if the riding public don't see any visible improvement? Make it official. Say something like "As part of the greatest subway capacity expansion since we built the IND, we've done this, this and that, and today's launch of CBTC on the 7/the R179s/whatever, is a greater step towards making the subway, and New York, a better place", etc, etc. For greater effect, slap on some statistics and run it on the NY Times too.

Just look at how much of a big deal London is making out of the Night Tube.
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Old February 27th, 2017, 07:01 PM   #4255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
I was responding to



I guess New Yorkers, like pretty much everyone else, want to see something concrete come out of fare hikes and whatnot. What's the point of buying new subway trains, or new yard space, or whatever, if the riding public don't see any visible improvement? Make it official. Say something like "As part of the greatest subway capacity expansion since we built the IND, we've done this, this and that, and today's launch of CBTC on the 7/the R179s/whatever, is a greater step towards making the subway, and New York, a better place", etc, etc. For greater effect, slap on some statistics and run it on the NY Times too.

Just look at how much of a big deal London is making out of the Night Tube.
We can see the new trains. The riding public does not need a politician to go on television and say, "this is what we've done" for something they will see regardless. Most of the improvements people want will never be seen. The riding public is aware of the modernizations. They are in the news. they are in the papers. they are on the service change notices. "We are rerouting the X, Y, and Z trains because we are installing new switches, signals, etc." CBTC is quite publicized. When it's planned. When it's begun. How long it will take. Progress as it gets closer to completion. And when the tests begin. When it's finally activated, we get the big news story from all the people you want it from. It happened with the L, it will happen with the 7. However, they don't try to make it sound bigger than it is. Because then, when the growing pains occur, there is backlash from the public. The L CBTC, being the first, had issues for years and still has issues. The biggest issue with that was they took out almost all the fixed block signaling north of Broadway Junction. That's a problem because when CBTC acts up, trains can't run. It still happens very often. The 7 CBTC should be better as I believe they are keeping the block signaling as a backup.

The things you suggested are not big things to be heavily praised. New subway cars are almost always coming in. In my fathers lifetime alone, about 10 fleets have been replaced since 1967. New Yorkers will ALWAYS notice that.

You also can't compare Night Tube with NYC subway improvements because Night Tube is a HUGE change for London. Other than that, what you said already occurs.
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Old March 1st, 2017, 05:36 AM   #4256
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More R179 testing:

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Old March 2nd, 2017, 10:41 PM   #4257
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(F) via (D) and (D) via (F)

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Old March 6th, 2017, 05:46 PM   #4258
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The Pennsylvania Avenue station on the train in East New York, Brooklyn has been shut down for a month now with no end in sight. This is all because a truck crashed into the elevated platform.

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/...structure.html
This station, which is located in a derelict part of Brooklyn, reopened last week after being closed for 4 months.

http://www.mta.info/news/2017/03/03/...ation-re-opens
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Old March 10th, 2017, 07:25 PM   #4259
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Old March 23rd, 2017, 09:33 AM   #4260
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