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Old June 30th, 2017, 02:47 PM   #4401
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R179 testing continues, both on Brighton and at Broad Channel. Enjoy, along with some action from the Brighton Line:






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Old June 30th, 2017, 04:25 PM   #4402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alargule View Post
A Freudian slip of the keys? Or did you intentionally frame Cuomo as The Problem®?
He is head of New York State. New York State funds the MTA.

It was HE who called the original 32 Billion 2015-19 Capital program "bloated" and forced the MTA to lower the needed amount. And now look where we are. He does nothing to stop money from being funneled out of the MTA, but at the same time, can railroad new bridges and airport modifications straight through with ease. He has no issue taking credit for projects he never even got going (his father is the one who got the studies for the modern SAS going), but is nowhere to be seen when problems do arise. He is a joke and I can't wait to see him gone. You'd think the system that allows the States largest municipality to give it billions every year would be better attended to.

But nope. F*ck me and the other 6 Million souls who rely on it on the daily.

Can't wait to see the state of the 2020-24 CP.
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Old July 3rd, 2017, 02:26 AM   #4403
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2 Trains @ New South Ferry due to long term weekend Clark Street Tube shutdown:

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Old July 5th, 2017, 11:30 PM   #4404
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Looks like they picked the R32 to get a cameo in the new Spider Man, Homecoming.

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/5/15...er-scenes-cuts

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Old July 6th, 2017, 07:55 PM   #4405
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R179 3050-3057 out on the C line conducting simulated stop testing last night:
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Old July 7th, 2017, 10:03 AM   #4406
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Hint at earlier R32 retirement?
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Old July 7th, 2017, 10:33 AM   #4407
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The intention of the R179 order is to replace the R32s.

However, some are expected to stick around until the R211s come, mainly because the R179 fleet is also needed for fleet expansion...
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Old July 8th, 2017, 06:59 AM   #4408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
The intention of the R179 order is to replace the R32s.

However, some are expected to stick around until the R211s come, mainly because the R179 fleet is also needed for fleet expansion...
The only fleet expansion the R179 is to cover is the 4 extra trains needed due to SAS phase one opening. Essentially, the 20 R32s and 8 R68As on the (A) will be placed elsewhere as the 40 R179s in 5-car sets will now be able to cover the service. The 179 will replace about half the R32s.

Any R32s that will stay are to provide extra G and J service due to the 14th Street Tube closure. The R211 will kill those cars, replace the R46 and remaining R44s, and expand the fleet.
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Old July 8th, 2017, 07:14 AM   #4409
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Chambers street station has to be the nastiest station in the city....
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Old July 8th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #4410
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Originally Posted by iiConTr0v3rSYx View Post
Chambers street station has to be the nastiest station in the city....
as well as Bowery station.
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Old July 13th, 2017, 07:24 PM   #4411
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Old July 15th, 2017, 08:52 PM   #4412
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Looks like some R32s should still make it to 2020:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/n...e-c-train.html

How Did the Subway Get So Bad? Look to the C Train
By MARC SANTORAJUNE 6, 2017

Quote:
Still, the old R32 cars will not be taken out of service right away.

The authority is concerned that they will be needed in 2019, when it shuts down a tunnel under the East River to
repair damage caused by Hurricane Sandy, disrupting L train service between Brooklyn and Manhattan.

Tens of thousands of commuters will be seeking alternative routes and the old workhorse, stainless-steel Brightliners
will be pressed into service yet again before they can finally be retired.
There were more R179 problems than I thought, and only one test track causing testing to last a year?
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Old July 16th, 2017, 06:06 AM   #4413
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It might be somewhat politically unpalatable, especially with the announcement of the R211s, but how about expanding the R179 order (maybe an R179A for Kawasaki/Alstom) to fully replace the R32s?
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Old July 16th, 2017, 04:49 PM   #4414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
It might be somewhat politically unpalatable, especially with the announcement of the R211s, but how about expanding the R179 order (maybe an R179A for Kawasaki/Alstom) to fully replace the R32s?
Not possible at this juncture. First off, those extra cars would be a whole new contract as option cars were never a part of the current R179 contract. They would thus need to be under a new contract and put out to bid. At the minimum, that's two years.

The R211 order will be awarded by the end of the summer anyway with the first cars arriving in 2019 and revenue service starting in 2020. All cars, base and possible options, should be in service by 2026 if there are no delays. R211A cars first as they are easier to build, could all be here between 2020 and 2023. R211T cars from 2023 to 2026.

Side note, if all options are exercised, the R211 order will be the new largest single car order, overtaking the R160 by 33 cars.

R160 - 1,662
R211 - 1,695
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Old July 16th, 2017, 09:30 PM   #4415
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With the R211 completion, it will just be the 1980s-vintage R60-series and the new technology trains, correct? And I seem to recall that the R62/R68 are highly reliable.
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Old July 17th, 2017, 11:49 PM   #4416
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Spoiler alerts

This is interesting - next train (not next "scheduled" train) countdown clocks on the R and N trains.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comment...ottom-comments

Probably wildly inaccurate but still...
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Old July 18th, 2017, 10:24 AM   #4417
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This is interesting - next train (not next "scheduled" train) countdown clocks on the R and N trains.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comment...ottom-comments

Probably wildly inaccurate but still...
I believe they're using a form of homebrew ATS involving train-mounted trackers and station WiFi to get a rough location of a train. Then, that powers the countdown clocks.

(or at least that's what I know, will the NYers please advise)
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Old July 18th, 2017, 05:36 PM   #4418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luacstjh98 View Post
I believe they're using a form of homebrew ATS involving train-mounted trackers and station WiFi to get a rough location of a train. Then, that powers the countdown clocks.

(or at least that's what I know, will the NYers please advise)
It's pretty much what you said minus the ATS factor. While the public will have a near accurate arrival time, control towers still won't exactly know where the trains are.

No word on how far away ISIM-B is.

For those who don't know, ISIM-B is pretty much ATS-A for B Division.
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Old July 19th, 2017, 07:13 AM   #4419
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Originally Posted by LTA1992 View Post
It's pretty much what you said minus the ATS factor. While the public will have a near accurate arrival time, control towers still won't exactly know where the trains are.

No word on how far away ISIM-B is.

For those who don't know, ISIM-B is pretty much ATS-A for B Division.
Can someone who's well read on the NYC Subway signaling system explain the big picture with regards to signaling modernization? Here's my understanding of what's going on:
  • Block signals have been used since the system was started. Block signals are electromechanical and divide the track length into discrete sections. When a train is occupying a particular block, the system signals to upstream trains that the blocks ahead are occupied.
  • The A Division is fully equipped with ATS-A (except on the Flushing Line), which provides real time train position data to the dispatcher and allows the dispatcher to reroute trains, but does not replace the block signals—they're simply a system built on top of them. ATS achieves much of what CBTC does, but without its precision or mechanical simplicity. The A Division countdown clocks use ATS-A for timing data.
  • The B Division won't be getting ATS-A, but rather the simpler ISIM-B (how does ISIM-B different from ATS-A)? ISIM-B installation won't be complete until 2020. The B Division countdown clocks use yet another system based on Bluetooth consumer hardware that tracks trains to the nearest upstream station to provide an ETA for the countdown clocks.
  • The L train uses a Siemens CBTC system, but block signaling is still used (why?).
  • The Flushing Line uses a Thales CBTC system, which should've been complete in 2016.
  • CBTC will eventually installed on the entire system at roughly 15-20 miles per year, with most of the system equipped by 2029, but block signals will continue to be used even after full CBTC installation.

A few follow up questions:
  • Does the current block signaling system provide PTC?
  • If the block signal can track a train down to a particular 1,000 ft block, why can't it provide countdown clock data and isn't a 1,000 ft block more precise than the Bluetooth-based system being installed on the B Division, which is only precise down to the station?
  • Why oh why oh why is block signaling still necessary after a full CBTC buildout?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!
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Old July 19th, 2017, 07:49 AM   #4420
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In the event of a CBTC failure, how do you suggest service continue if block signalling is not modernized and retained as a backup system? This is a problem on the Canarsie Line, because when the Siemens CBTC system was installed a decade ago, the need for a backup system was not thought of, and many of the old fixed block signals in the underground section of the line were ripped out. As a result, now, if you need to bring a non-CBTC compatible train onto the Canarsie Line, you must institute absolute block operations, meaning that the non-compatible train must be the ONLY train in any given absolute block section (which are ridiculously long due to the lack of actual blocks on the line now; I forget the exact limits, but I think B-Junction to Myrtle is one block, Myrtle to Lorimer is one block, and Lorimer to 8th Av is one block). Same is true if CBTC were to fail completely; the result of such a failure would be that between Broadway Junction and 8th Avenue you could only have 2-3 trains running in each direction, and each train would not be allowed to proceed into the next block until the train in front had exited said block. The result would be something like 20-30+ min headways or something like that.

Because of this problem, future CBTC installation in the system includes the modernization of the existing fixed block aspect system to allow for backup operations. On the Flushing Line, they're leaving enough wayside signals in place so that should a non-compatible train need to run, or if there is a failure in the system, they are still able to run trains on a 5-minute headway.

To answer your other question, the current fixed block system does provide some form of PTC, in that it satisfies two of the four primary characteristics listed below [satisfied parameters indicated by asterisk]:

-Train separation or collision avoidance*
-Line speed enforcement*
-Temporary speed restrictions
-Rail worker wayside safety

The first characteristic is satisfied by the use of the automatic stop arms attached to the signal cases and trip cocks on the trains, which will trigger an emergency brake application if the train operator runs a red signal.

The second characteristic is satisfied by the use of timed signals, which remain at danger (red) until an automatic timer has expired. When a train enters a block or blocks of track where line speed is enforced, the train operator sees the speed sign alerting him/her that the train has entered a timed section, and the timer is triggered. If the train is travelling sufficiently slow, the timer will expire before the train reaches the signal displaying danger, and the signal will clear, allowing the train to pass. IF the train is speeding, it will reach the signal before the timer expires, thus causing an emergency brake application via the mechanics of the first satisfied characteristic.

The current fixed block system cannot enforce temporary speed restrictions, nor can it provide RWP. So in that sense, it is not a full PTC system.
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