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Old October 26th, 2017, 05:02 AM   #4581
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Old October 27th, 2017, 05:51 AM   #4582
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Finally NYC!!

Upgrading your outdated system. Cities around the world have this for at least 20 years..


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Old October 27th, 2017, 07:01 AM   #4583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiogoBaptista View Post
at least 20 years..
Contactless/RFID, sure, but surely NFC phone payments haven't been around for that long, save for Japanese phones with a custom Suica/FeliCa chip?

AFAIK, only a handful of systems in the world support full NFC ticketing.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 01:25 PM   #4584
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Phone payments are more recent, and the momentum behind them was because the US doesn't have high-tech bank cards - take up for Apple Pay is far lower elsewhere.

I'd imagine that cities that have RFID cards can be upgraded for Contactless bank cards and / or phone stuff easily. So London has had Oyster for about 12 years, gained Contactless as an alternative to Oyster as soon as UK banks started trialling the bank cards 3 or so years ago, and Apple Pay when that came out.

They'd prefer people used the bank cards (or phones, but they aren't as common) as, despite that not giving TfL a loan (Oyster is pre-pay), the tech behind Oyster is reaching its limits of it's old tech - weekly caps, etc are only possible on bank cards, no more zones can be added, etc.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 02:37 PM   #4585
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...but that’s essentially why the MTA has been dragging its feet: They didn’t want to go full-hog on RFID only to have to go back and upgrade it, again.

The belief was that they’d simply be able to have card issuers and banks provide all the [back-end] infrastructure, as the thinking was that US banks would also make the switch to contactless (namely, NFC) payments; they did not.

Whether that was ultimately a sensible thing for the MTA to do is up for debate, but it wasn’t like they weren’t trialing alternatives...They found a solution they think works for their Ed’s and provides enough forward comparability, I suppose.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 05:19 PM   #4586
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Technology is great ..however...

I'd rather use this...a lot simpler for me. But what do I care?..I don't live in NYC....



..not only am I old but old fashion too!

ps.. NYC subway stopped using tokens back in 2000..I think...

pss I was wrong. Tokens were finally phased out in 2003.
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Old October 27th, 2017, 06:44 PM   #4587
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...but that’s essentially why the MTA has been dragging its feet: They didn’t want to go full-hog on RFID only to have to go back and upgrade it, again.
I'm not sure why NYC's flat-fare system would need future upgrades in the way Oyster will (perhaps the plan was for a smart card to be able to cover the commuter rail as well as the city transit?). However, it was perfectly acceptable for NYC to wait for banks to go contactless before going contactless.

Contactless can be a little bit gimmicky*, however it does speed up gate throughput over magnetic strip once people work out what they are doing.

*A UK national supermarket chain's loyalty card provider is going all out on the fact that they are now contactless cards. For the past 15ish-years, you could have a barcoded dongle and scan that, or scan the barcode on the bank-card-style card, or put it in the card-chip reader (no pin needed, and definitely no sign - just the chip), but now you can do contactless. It isn't payment, it's just saying "can you put the points on this account?" in a different (but no quicker) way, but they are making a big fuss over it.
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Old October 28th, 2017, 03:39 AM   #4588
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Happy birthday to the greatest subway in the world for its 113 years.
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Old October 29th, 2017, 03:57 PM   #4589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
I'm not sure why NYC's flat-fare system would need future upgrades in the way Oyster will (perhaps the plan was for a smart card to be able to cover the commuter rail as well as the city transit?). However, it was perfectly acceptable for NYC to wait for banks to go contactless before going contactless.
Yes, they want one, regional fare media. Unfortunately, NJ has it's head up its butt, so I don't think they're in a position to join in, and no one cares about SEPTA; however, LIRR and MNR should also switch to this new fare system (in addition to the city buses).

Otherwise, the MTA has been signaling for quite a while that they'd preferably like to be completely out of the business of selling the fare media - I don't really think that's so reasonable, as it might have equity issues - but I do think this has been a hang-up for them. This is why I said they were caught a bit flat-footed by not necessarily wanting to go with RFID, if they felt NFC was going to be a future standard. I guess it shouldn't cost much to then switch from RFID to NFC, but given the age of the MetroCard and the manner in which the MTA gets funding and handles contracts, this may ultimately end up being a wise decision.

Anyways, it seems like the MTA desperately wants a system in which most people use phones and credit/debit cards tied to some online account - which would allow monthly discounts, peak/off-peak pricing, etc - and the remaining few who can/will not use those methods purchase a MTA card online or at some select stations.

I, personally, think this is a bit bone-headed: They should simply issue the new MTA card as a debit-card-and-Municipal-ID-in-one. The HK MTR [Octopus] card shows that transit agencies can be a bit more creative in adding utility to their fare media. Given that many poor in the city don't have bank accounts - let alone access to debit/credit cards - and that the city is pushing to help similar populations gain access to identification with it's new city id, combining the two via the MetroCard replacement makes a lot of sense for NY.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 07:20 AM   #4590
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Old October 30th, 2017, 01:53 PM   #4591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
Given that many poor in the city don't have bank accounts - let alone access to debit/credit cards - and that the city is pushing to help similar populations gain access to identification with it's new city id, combining the two via the MetroCard replacement makes a lot of sense for NY.
Absolutely there can't be 100% reliance on banks to provide the cards. Not just for the poor of the city (and there needs to be lots of places to charge your card with cash - cf most newsagents in London doing it, as well as the stations, due to the need to do it before riding the entirely cashless busses), but tourists too.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 01:59 PM   #4592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Absolutely there can't be 100% reliance on banks to provide the cards. Not just for the poor of the city (and there needs to be lots of places to charge your card with cash - cf most newsagents in London doing it, as well as the stations, due to the need to do it before riding the entirely cashless busses), but tourists too.
I think you’ve misunderstood my point...

I pointed out that they’re gonna have to continue providing a MetroCard, but that they can make it more useful - and better for their bottom lines - if they also allow it to be used as a debit card and for other similar purposes (eg city identification for purposes of paying bills, registering for school, employment, etc).

The MTA thinks most people will likely opt for a debit/credit card or smartphone: I don’t think that will be the case, and has equity issues, as I said. More so, there will be many who just think they’re being ‘spied’ in and will simply refuse ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Old October 30th, 2017, 02:09 PM   #4593
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my point is that while you can put city services stuff on a transit card, and id and all that, there's still a need to serve out-of-towners without cards/smartphones who not only don't need that stuff, but would be shut out if the new Metrocard is wholly merged with an id card for city residents.
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Old October 30th, 2017, 02:44 PM   #4594
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Quote:
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my point is that while you can put city services stuff on a transit card, and id and all that, there's still a need to serve out-of-towners without cards/smartphones who not only don't need that stuff, but would be shut out if the new Metrocard is wholly merged with an id card for city residents.
Again, no...I still don’t think you understand me.
I’d think it’s rather the other way around: Those services can be provided to MetroCard holders, if they wish to receive them, without the hassle of having to get additional media.

That is, the MetroCard is an extensible platform upon which additional services can be provided.

Just because it can be used for those services, doesn’t mean one has to use it for those purposes.

It’s relatively simple to have a card that be used as what is effectively a pre-charged debit card (or, via integration with adequate web services, a bank account) as well as a secure ID that can only be scanned via specific readers. There are myriad ways to make this work.

Tourists can utilize the same exact card without ever activating those features...Or, a temporary card, which is meant to be returned in exchange for retrieving some initial fee can be initiated.

In the end, the point is that this stuff can be done on the backend. The fare media itself is dumb: It’s the NFC chip and proliferation of readers that enables ‘smart’ features.
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Old October 31st, 2017, 02:41 AM   #4595
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Countdown clocks are now live on the B N and Q trains!

The D F and J/Z are coming next month!
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Old November 9th, 2017, 09:14 AM   #4596
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The R179’s have officially entered service on the J! This is the train that has the oldest, most outdated cars and probably needed it the most!
They don’t look too different from the R160’s aside from the double handle pole, but they do sound very different.
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Old November 10th, 2017, 01:46 AM   #4597
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Finally.

What took them so long, anyway? Poor workmanship on Bombardier's part?
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Old November 10th, 2017, 03:26 AM   #4598
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Looks like R32 retirement was effectively moved up several years then
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Old November 10th, 2017, 10:22 AM   #4599
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I remember reading that some R32s will probably stick around for fleet expansion, which would be desperately needed unless the R211s can be deployed before the Canarsie Tunnel closure finishes and the L needs their trains back?
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Old November 10th, 2017, 04:46 PM   #4600
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Quote:
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The R179’s have officially entered service on the J! This is the train that has the oldest, most outdated cars and probably needed it the most!
They don’t look too different from the R160’s aside from the double handle pole, but they do sound very different.
Fake news. The R179s are preforming simulated stops right now.
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