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Old June 16th, 2008, 05:49 PM   #621
iampuking
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Okay, a better phrase would be "poorly looked after" but that just sounds rubbish. Anyway, it has no relation to whether the system is 24 hours or not, it's not like they can't have cleaners doing basic stuff like picking up rubbish when there are passengers there.
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Old June 17th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #622
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Stop making excuses, it's dirty because it's poorly maintained.
It's poorly maintained due to lack of funding, stemming from being neither the state or national capital.
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Old June 18th, 2008, 03:44 AM   #623
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London being the capital and largest city of the country can suck the funds it wants to out of the UK's treasury. New York City is not even the capital of its state, let alone the country.

Simple enough. Does not make it right, but, everyone loves to treat this city like a cash cow, and we lack the ability at the state and federal level to get the infrastructure we need.
Your argument about population size is counter-intuitive. New York's metropolitan area contains 18.815m people, the next largest is Los Angeles which has 12.875m in its metropolitan area. That's a 46% difference between the two cities. In fact, the metropolitan area of Washington DC has only 5.306m; the difference between Washington DC and New York is 254%. The fact that New York has such a higher population and is the only Class A world city in the United States (the other three are London, Paris, and Tokyo) demands that New York receive the money it needs to sustain itself, $11bn of which doesn't come back from the State of New York.
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Old June 18th, 2008, 03:54 AM   #624
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Just because it makes sense doesnt mean that the US politicos would follow that line of thinking. Further the politics of the state of New York are probably some of the most backwards and corrupt (three men in a room) that you will find in the United States.
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Old June 18th, 2008, 07:14 AM   #625
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It's poorly maintained due to lack of funding, stemming from being neither the state or national capital.
Yes, and also because it costs a lot of money to keep such a large system well-maintained - far beyond what government is able to support given other priorities.
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Old June 18th, 2008, 07:28 AM   #626
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Your argument about population size is counter-intuitive. New York's metropolitan area contains 18.815m people, the next largest is Los Angeles which has 12.875m in its metropolitan area. That's a 46% difference between the two cities. In fact, the metropolitan area of Washington DC has only 5.306m; the difference between Washington DC and New York is 254%. The fact that New York has such a higher population and is the only Class A world city in the United States (the other three are London, Paris, and Tokyo) demands that New York receive the money it needs to sustain itself, $11bn of which doesn't come back from the State of New York.
Population doesn't matter. New York is a net-giver state, like other states in the Northeast. We get sucked dry by the feds...continuously getting less money than we give there. And if it's not the Feds, its the crap politics in Albany that keeps it messed up. Off-topic, but they VETOED the congestion zone bill. A bill that would have gave NY more money to invest in PT. WTF?
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Old June 18th, 2008, 09:49 AM   #627
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MTA expects deficits, may increase commuter fares in '09
12 June 2008

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - New York City subway, commuter train and bus fares could increase a quarter or more in 2009 because of a projected operating deficit at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

Assemblyman Richard Brodsky of Westchester says MTA officials told him at a hearing Wednesday a shortfall of $600 million to $700 million next year will likely force a rare second straight year of fare increases.

Brodsky warns the MTA must undergo "drastic changes" to avoid deficits and poor service reminiscent of the 1970s. He says the MTA projects shortfalls for the next few years.

The MTA didn't immediately respond to requests for comment.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 11:41 AM   #628
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Merchants near 2nd Ave. subway project say business hurt
21 June 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - Shopkeepers near the planned Second Avenue subway line are complaining that the project is hurting business.

Businesses on Second Avenue between East 91st and 96th streets say it's become difficult for pedestrians and motorists to get to them since construction started last year.

The businesses are hoping state lawmakers pass bills that would give tenants and landlords millions of dollars in grants, sales-tax breaks and property-tax abatements.

They say a half-dozen businesses already have closed because of construction and more could shut their doors if the state aid isn't approved.

The legislation is pending.

------

Information from: Daily News, http://www.nydailynews.com
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Old June 24th, 2008, 12:06 AM   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Moscow and Tokyo metros are far cleaner and have more people using them.
well IAMPUKING are the Moscow and Tokyo metros open 24/7? EXACTLY!
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Old June 24th, 2008, 12:09 AM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Stop making excuses, it's dirty because it's poorly maintained.
and by the way, IAMPUKING, it's obvious that you live in the middle of nowhere and that you're jelous of anybody who lives in a city. The New York City subway is the largest metro system in the United States, and carries 1.5 BILLION people a year. Stop being so negative.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 01:22 AM   #631
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well IAMPUKING are the Moscow and Tokyo metros open 24/7? EXACTLY!
They are open when needed. I'd rather ride a clean metro by day than a filthy one by night.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 01:47 AM   #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewartrama View Post
and by the way, IAMPUKING, it's obvious that you live in the middle of nowhere and that you're jelous of anybody who lives in a city. The New York City subway is the largest metro system in the United States, and carries 1.5 BILLION people a year. Stop being so negative.
Where I live is of no concern. Highlighting the fact that it carries 1.5 billion a year as if it were special shows your complete lack of understanding, as i've already said the Moscow and Tokyo metros both carry more passengers per year and are far cleaner. That's because they actually receive adequate investment. You're just making out that having a metro system that isn't looked after is part of city life. It isn't.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 04:35 AM   #633
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Where I live is of no concern. Highlighting the fact that it carries 1.5 billion a year as if it were special shows your complete lack of understanding, as i've already said the Moscow and Tokyo metros both carry more passengers per year and are far cleaner. That's because they actually receive adequate investment. You're just making out that having a metro system that isn't looked after is part of city life. It isn't.

Well you cannot blame the city for the faults in the subway system which I love. As has been pointed out many times, Moscow, Tokyo, Paris, London are all the capitals of their respective nations.

NYC however, while arguably the most powerful city in the world, is obedient to two governments, first the state and then the feds, both of which deem every project meant to improve the city as pork barrel projects. Basically NYC gives away much more money in tax revenue then it will ever receive in return.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 05:30 AM   #634
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The fact that NYC is 'the most powerful city in the world' (which it isn't) and that it has to answer to 'two governments' is beyond the question. Nearly every metro system on Earth has to answer to two or more governments. That's just part of the political structure. The London Underground doesn't just pull money out of its arse, it gets funded my numerous areas of the Government - as the NYC Subway does as well. It's just that the LU gets a far more adequate amount of money, whereas in public transport scared America, mass transit systems suffer from lack of foresight and poor monetary injections.

The NYC subway is just poorly maintained, therefore it is dirty and crumbling.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 06:23 AM   #635
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The fact that NYC is 'the most powerful city in the world' (which it isn't)
STFU.

He said arguably the most powerful.

And, yes, considering the UN's headquarters are there and that it is one of the two biggest financial centers in the world (plus having the largest stocks exchanges by a mile, in terms of market cap.), plus its vibrant and varied population, plus home to many major corporations, its culture, being in (still) the world's most powerful country, etc.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 06:27 AM   #636
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The fact that NYC is 'the most powerful city in the world' (which it isn't) and that it has to answer to 'two governments' is beyond the question. Nearly every metro system on Earth has to answer to two or more governments. That's just part of the political structure. The London Underground doesn't just pull money out of its arse, it gets funded my numerous areas of the Government - as the NYC Subway does as well. It's just that the LU gets a far more adequate amount of money, whereas in public transport scared America, mass transit systems suffer from lack of foresight and poor monetary injections.

The NYC subway is just poorly maintained, therefore it is dirty and crumbling.
While you making a de facto statement about NYC's influence leads me to question your motivation, I will just recall some GAO numbers and estimates from Albany NY as representation of tax distribution.

On a per person basis Washington DC gets more than $5 worth of federal tax dollars, while the state of New York gets $.93 per person, I think NY is number 49 on that list.

On the other hand Albany is highly secretive about their power but I have heard a few estimates that per person the city receives $.30 and the rest of the state gets $1.10. Just some examples...

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/2...clears-albany/

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/06/1...s-camera-vote/

And then of course you have the Congestion pricing which failed in the state.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:32 AM   #637
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Well you cannot blame the city for the faults in the subway system which I love. As has been pointed out many times, Moscow, Tokyo, Paris, London are all the capitals of their respective nations.

NYC however, while arguably the most powerful city in the world, is obedient to two governments, first the state and then the feds, both of which deem every project meant to improve the city as pork barrel projects. Basically NYC gives away much more money in tax revenue then it will ever receive in return.
There is no point going into the reasons why. My argument is that just because it runs 24/7 or carries a lot of people doesn't mean the stations have to look so crummy and they were usually directed at morons who thought this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing
It's just that the LU gets a far more adequate amount of money, whereas in public transport scared America, mass transit systems suffer from lack of foresight and poor monetary injections.
LU gets more money, and is only starting to get more money because of the silly PPP (Public-Private-Partnership) system. Which although is guarantees stable long term investment, it means that profit is put above common sense, or anything else for that matter. But hey, that's more than we can expect from politicians who seem to put their own egos above profit or common sense, or anything else.

The PPP means that the a public company (TfL) controls the running of the service, and the private companies (TubeLines and the now bankrupt Metronet (note the comment made about them putting profit above common sense)) control the "investment programme" that is upgrading the infastructure. I believe that most of the money supplied to TfL comes from the London taxpayer, meaning that London's economic benefit to the country as a whole is completely ignored, I wouldn't know anyway, just clearing that up.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 05:04 AM   #638
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I think $2 flat fee is too cheap. Why don't they increase the price to $2.50 and spend the extra money for cleaning the stations.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 05:47 AM   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Moscow and Tokyo metros are far cleaner and have more people using them.
I do not think the Moscow metro is used more widely than the New york city, in fact, i am not even sure if the Tokyo metro is as efficient as the one in NYC.

now, even though i dont usually visit this type of transportation thread(is actually my first time) i have to admit that your response is very ignorant

New York is the "capital" of the world(no matter what anybody else says), with one of the biggest metropolitan areas were people of every country, every background, and every culture interact and live with each others....

Many of us living here actually dont take care of that precious subway system that we have because we dont actually realize how important it is...anyways

Fixing and keeping the New York Transit system would mean that it can no longer be 24/7....that billions of dollars in subsidies would have to be given, that nearly a million of dirty motherfukers will have to be banned from the subway, and it would mean that service would have to be interrupted too much more than the present just to keep it working neatly

As those that live in NYC know:

Its impossible to shut down this system, even if its for a minute it, it would turn into chaos....EVERY single maintenance that they give to the system means that trains would be rerouted-shutdown-or closed...New york city people hate when trains are to be shut down...imagine if they do it 30x more than what they do it now

This city needs this trains, and its to hard to keep it clean with the amount of people that use it.

bottom line:

Shut the fu** up....I love my subway system even if its not as neat and well mantained as others
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Old June 25th, 2008, 05:55 AM   #640
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Quote:
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I think $2 flat fee is too cheap. Why don't they increase the price to $2.50 and spend the extra money for cleaning the stations.
Yeah right..i would die if they do that!
even though i know thats coming soon

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