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Old June 25th, 2008, 06:21 AM   #641
Msradell
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Originally Posted by Galls View Post
....Basically NYC gives away much more money in tax revenue then it will ever receive in return.
Everything I've ever seen shows New York being a huge vacuum sucking in State and Federal money. I don't see where New York sends out more tax money than it receives. Yes, New York City generates a lot of tax revenue but it also spends an awful lot.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #642
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I do not think the Moscow metro is used more widely than the New york city, in fact, i am not even sure if the Tokyo metro is as efficient as the one in NYC.

now, even though i dont usually visit this type of transportation thread(is actually my first time) i have to admit that your response is very ignorant

New York is the "capital" of the world(no matter what anybody else says), with one of the biggest metropolitan areas were people of every country, every background, and every culture interact and live with each others....

Many of us living here actually dont take care of that precious subway system that we have because we dont actually realize how important it is...anyways

Fixing and keeping the New York Transit system would mean that it can no longer be 24/7....that billions of dollars in subsidies would have to be given, that nearly a million of dirty motherfukers will have to be banned from the subway, and it would mean that service would have to be interrupted too much more than the present just to keep it working neatly

As those that live in NYC know:

Its impossible to shut down this system, even if its for a minute it, it would turn into chaos....EVERY single maintenance that they give to the system means that trains would be rerouted-shutdown-or closed...New york city people hate when trains are to be shut down...imagine if they do it 30x more than what they do it now

This city needs this trains, and its to hard to keep it clean with the amount of people that use it.

bottom line:

Shut the fu** up....I love my subway system even if its not as neat and well mantained as others
Do you actually know anything about the Tokyo or Moscow Metro systems, to compare? Or do you just have a completely over-inflated idea of the efficiency (and ease of use... Speed... Convenience... Ad nauseam...) of the New York Subway system? Sure, it runs 24/7, has express tracks, but if it isn't taken advantage of then it's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 06:47 AM   #643
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I do not think the Moscow metro is used more widely than the New york city
Actually, Moscow (and Tokyo) are more used than the NYC subway
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Old June 25th, 2008, 08:41 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
Everything I've ever seen shows New York being a huge vacuum sucking in State and Federal money. I don't see where New York sends out more tax money than it receives. Yes, New York City generates a lot of tax revenue but it also spends an awful lot.
On a per person basis it most definitely does. I will look for GAO report, but for the time being you will have to take my word that Kentucky gets much more in tax money than we do if measured on a per person basis.

And aside from that if that is the perception you truly have of NYC, that it actually take more fed money than it contributes into the city than no wonder why we always get screwed. The wrest of the country actually thinks they are more profitable than us.

http://www.ginandtacos.com/?p=911



Note this was not me original source for this information, as with this blog the GAO was.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 09:59 AM   #645
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Agency says NYC transit faces budget shortfall
24 June 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - The New York City metro area's transit system is facing a budget shortfall that will likely mean service cuts and higher fares.

Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials say shrinking revenues and increased expenses have led to the grim financial outlook for the agency that runs the city's subways and buses.

The officials say they will have to defer the renovation of 19 subway stations, and will not increase service on some subways and buses, as had been expected.

MTA CEO Elliot Sander says he is concerned about the budget gap. He says that unless the authority gets help from the state, it will have no choice but to increase fares for the second year in a row.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Agency says NYC transit faces budget shortfall
24 June 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - The New York City metro area's transit system is facing a budget shortfall that will likely mean service cuts and higher fares.

Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials say shrinking revenues and increased expenses have led to the grim financial outlook for the agency that runs the city's subways and buses.

The officials say they will have to defer the renovation of 19 subway stations, and will not increase service on some subways and buses, as had been expected.

MTA CEO Elliot Sander says he is concerned about the budget gap. He says that unless the authority gets help from the state, it will have no choice but to increase fares for the second year in a row.
How come revenues are falling? Every other transit system in the United States has seen a significant increase in ridership as fuel prices have increased. While I'm sure their expensive have increased due to increased energy costs, I find it hard to believe revenues have decreased. Sounds like there must be a political spin on the issue or they're including indirect revenue sources such as grants and government subsidies.
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Old June 27th, 2008, 07:13 AM   #647
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The state pulled 500 million dollars it had promised the transit authority about 4 months ago. Also the MTA makes money off of real estate taxe revenue which has been falling so they say.
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Old June 27th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #648
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The state pulled 500 million dollars it had promised the transit authority about 4 months ago. Also the MTA makes money off of real estate taxe revenue which has been falling so they say.
This is about what I suspected. Mass transit systems need to wean themselves from gov't subsidies and instead use fares as their source of operating income. Subsidies should only be used for expansions and/or system upgrades.

I also wonder how true that drop off of real estate tax revenue is. Theoretical property values may have dropped in the last year but as a rule reassessments don't occur often enough or so widespread that they should have had a significant impact. And I'm sure the rate of taxation hasn't declined.
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Old June 27th, 2008, 04:21 PM   #649
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Mass transit systems need to wean themselves from gov't subsidies
Why? so that roads can continue gobbling up an increasingly unfair share of outright subsidisation?
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Old June 28th, 2008, 05:05 AM   #650
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Why? so that roads can continue gobbling up an increasingly unfair share of outright subsidisation?
Money given to road projects comes from fuel taxes. Actually not even all the money from fuel taxes goes back into the highway system, some of its diverted to mass transit.

So you are partially correct, roads do gobble up a large share of out right subsidies. Mass transit on the other hand take a significant portion of subsidies but contribute nothing.
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Old June 28th, 2008, 07:49 AM   #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
Money given to road projects comes from fuel taxes. Actually not even all the money from fuel taxes goes back into the highway system, some of its diverted to mass transit.

So you are partially correct, roads do gobble up a large share of out right subsidies. Mass transit on the other hand take a significant portion of subsidies but contribute nothing.
Actually you are very much wrong. On top of the federal fuel tax the government still needed to contribute 51 billion dollars to just to maintain the roads. Mass transit on the other hand has shown to take a relatively low portion of subsidies and economic studies have shown them to have a net positive in external effect.

BTW, How is 4 dollars a gallon treating you? My $80 monthly pass gets me anywhere I want to go on the arteries of this real city.
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Old June 29th, 2008, 04:57 AM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
This is about what I suspected. Mass transit systems need to wean themselves from gov't subsidies and instead use fares as their source of operating income. Subsidies should only be used for expansions and/or system upgrades.
Show me a mass transit system that doesn't get government subsidies and I'll show you flying pigs.
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Old June 29th, 2008, 05:17 AM   #653
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O metrô de Nova York é tão sem graça, prefiro o de São Paulo. Obrigado!
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Old June 29th, 2008, 12:19 PM   #654
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Show me a mass transit system that doesn't get government subsidies and I'll show you flying pigs.
Most of the Dutch railways is operated cost-covering from the tickets, without subsidies. That includes the InterCity services and the commuter trains. Only the rural single-track lines get subsidies.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 02:38 AM   #655
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Where I live is of no concern. Highlighting the fact that it carries 1.5 billion a year as if it were special shows your complete lack of understanding, as i've already said the Moscow and Tokyo metros both carry more passengers per year and are far cleaner. That's because they actually receive adequate investment. You're just making out that having a metro system that isn't looked after is part of city life. It isn't.
well, smartass, the new york city won a metro award for being best mantained this year. I agree that the subway doesn't recieve adaquate care, but originally you were just criticizing the subway in an almost competitive way. "Stop making excuses, it's dirty because it's poorly maintained" I believe you wrote. Well sorry that I don't read all of your posts and know that you had already stated that, I have better things to do
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Old June 30th, 2008, 04:41 AM   #656
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What about the outrageous toll revenues (bridges, tunnels, turnpikes, etc.)? Can't they finance the subway projects?
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Old June 30th, 2008, 06:37 AM   #657
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What about the outrageous toll revenues (bridges, tunnels, turnpikes, etc.)? Can't they finance the subway projects?
Those tolls are collected via the Port Authority and it is a New York, New Jersey entity. The Port Authority is in charge of all the principle bridges, airports, tunnels, has its own subway system called the PATH and also owns ground zero. So their plate is pretty full.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #658
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Those tolls are collected via the Port Authority and it is a New York, New Jersey entity. The Port Authority is in charge of all the principle bridges, airports, tunnels, has its own subway system called the PATH and also owns ground zero. So their plate is pretty full.
exactly. The PA (Port Authority) has to manage rail tracks building projects, airports, tunnels, some of the actual train cars, buses, etc.The MTA and PA have no direct relation although they are both government agencies.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 07:31 AM   #659
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The entire New York metro area needs an infrastructure facelift. THe Bayonne and Tappan Zee Bridges need to be replaced, freeways need to rebuilt, and the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels need replacement as well, not to mention a new passenger rail tunnel under the Hudson (not coming until 2016).

Subways need cleaning and new lines need to be built (a direct Brooklyn-Queens-Bronx line, a line to La Guardia).

The federal government needs to step in and provide the funding for these improvements. NYC is the economic heart of America and needs first rate infrastructure to attract more people and businesses.
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 04:49 PM   #660
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the g line runs through brooklyn and maybe queens and it brings in very few passengers; I dont think a line from brooklyn to the bronx would do that well
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