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Old July 3rd, 2008, 03:30 AM   #661
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The g line brought in few passengers because it ran through mostly sparsely populated areas that were mostly industrial. It is only now that these areas are being filled in with more residents.
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 05:18 AM   #662
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To carry out the projects that were proposed a few posts above, New York City would need about $100B
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 06:33 AM   #663
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i would pay slightly higher fares if that meant the stations got a bright and modern makeover
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Old July 6th, 2008, 08:38 AM   #664
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To carry out the projects that were proposed a few posts above, New York City would need about $100B
I don't know if it would be that much but the US spends that much in Iraq in a single year. The money is there, it is simply a matter of priorities.
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Old July 6th, 2008, 02:26 PM   #665
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I don't know if it would be that much but the US spends that much in Iraq in a single year. The money is there, it is simply a matter of priorities.
True, and the priorities are definitely set in the right place at the present time. National Security is definitely a much higher priority than mass transit. Governmental funding of system construction and expansions is one thing but the systems should not receive government funding to aid in operating costs, there should be covered by fares.
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Old July 6th, 2008, 05:43 PM   #666
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True, and the priorities are definitely set in the right place at the present time. National Security is definitely a much higher priority than mass transit. Governmental funding of system construction and expansions is one thing but the systems should not receive government funding to aid in operating costs, there should be covered by fares.
Good idea, maybe now we can stop giving $50 billion a year to the highway fund on top of the gas tax! Let the roads rot and give alternative transportation an fighting chance.

Lets end the oil subsidize which do affect the price of gas by about $1 a gallon. (Won't affect me, I live in a real city)

Here is the best idea in accordance with your philosophy, I mean I really have to credit you with this. Lets let Louisville die!!! Since Kentucky is one of the worst in terms of federal money received compared to tax revenue collected, lets go to a fair system. Imagine, if you will, receiving fed money based on input, NYC would become flush with money, or at least have less of it taken away. Imagine how the already thriving city, despite its failed economic policies of subsidizing its transit, could thrive and imagine how Kentucky would die.

As long as NY is such a revenue generating machine, in fact creating more in tax revenue than we receive, you are really in no position to criticize what is the most essential infrastructure in this state.

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Old July 6th, 2008, 06:41 PM   #667
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Good idea, maybe now we can stop giving $50 billion a year to the highway fund on top of the gas tax! Let the roads rot and give alternative transportation an fighting chance.

Lets end the oil subsidize which do affect the price of gas by about $1 a gallon. (Won't affect me, I live in a real city)

Lets let Louisville die!!! Since Kentucky is one of the worst in terms of federal money received compared to tax revenue collected, lets go to a fair system. Imagine, if you will, receiving fed money based on input, NYC would become flush with money, or at least have less of it taken away. Imagine how the already thriving city, despite its failed economic policies of subsidizing its transit, could thrive and imagine how Kentucky would die.

As long as NY is such a revenue generating machine, in fact creating more in tax revenue than we receive, you are really in no position to criticize what is the most essential infrastructure in this state.
Actually, while Kentucky may be on the positive side of the give and receive ratio for tax money, Louisville isn't. Louisville like many other areas gives more than it receives. As for New York, the numbers refer to the entire state not just NYC. When I lived upstate the rest in the state could hear the suction taking our money to NYC. I'm not sure exactly how the ratios are today but back then the ratios are very unequal. Of course New York is one of the most heavily taxed states in the nation so they should be flush with money.

Another point is I actually admit on my profile where I live since I'm proud of it. You obviously aren't proud of where you live since you don't admit to where you live.
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Old July 6th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #668
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Actually, while Kentucky may be on the positive side of the give and receive ratio for tax money, Louisville isn't. Louisville like many other areas gives more than it receives. As for New York, the numbers refer to the entire state not just NYC. When I lived upstate the rest in the state could hear the suction taking our money to NYC. I'm not sure exactly how the ratios are today but back then the ratios are very unequal. Of course New York is one of the most heavily taxed states in the nation so they should be flush with money.

Another point is I actually admit on my profile where I live since I'm proud of it. You obviously aren't proud of where you live since you don't admit to where you live.


You think NYC, the financial capital of the world, where unfathomable amounts of money are routinely transferred, created, destroyed and taxed is honestly a drain on the Federal and State governments? So while you have lived in the economically depressed upstate region, very similar to mid western cities, you honestly believe somehow their tax revenue exceeds their intake and they are the treasure chest of New York State, while New York City is the drain. It is clear that NYC is the only part holding this state together financially.

As too your second part, because I have not bothered to update my profile even once I am now not proud to live in NYC?

You my friend, between NYC clearly being a complete drain on the nations deficit and a simple profile update equating love or hate of ones residence, have a fascinating logic process.
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Old July 8th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #669
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From the Big Apple to the big Atlantic
27 June 2008

CHINCOTEAGUE, Va. (AP) - They carried commuters across New York City for 40 years, but in less than two hours Thursday, 44 subway cars from the Big Apple were sunk off the Virginia coast, becoming part of a large artificial fishing reef.

About six miles off Chincoteague on the Eastern Shore, a specially rigged crane dropped the 16-ton cars, one by one, off a barge and into about 65 feet of water. The impact each time created a loud smack and sent thick spray into the air.

The steel shells, stripped of their doors, windows, seats, plastics and asbestos, joined surplus Army tanks and 50 other rail cars from New York City that had been similarly deployed here several years ago as part of Virginia's man-made reefing program.

Five more loads of subway cars will be sent to the ocean bottom in the coming years, under a contract between the state and the New York City Transit Authority. Maryland, New Jersey, Delaware, South Carolina and Georgia also utilize New York's old subway cars in this manner.

The transit authority saves money by not having to scrap or landfill its obsolete cars, and Virginia gets a cheap -- if unlikely -- material to create marine habitat and attract fish, Scuba divers and sports fishermen to its coast.

"It's environmentally acceptable, stable and has proven to be highly popular and successful," said Mike Meier, reef program manager for the Virginia Marine Resources Commission.

Meier has overseen the placement of 23 artificial reefs in the Chesapeake Bay and offshore waters since the late 1970s, giving Virginia one of the largest collections of alternative reefs on the East Coast.

The program is not without its critics, though.

Some commercial fishermen worry that mounds of concrete and construction scrap are taking up too much space in the Bay and have increasingly snagged their fishing nets and damaged their boats.

Offshore, meanwhile, some scientists and environmentalists question the value of discarding rail cars, military vehicles, old ships and other debris as if the ocean bottom was some kind of underwater junk yard.

"Unfortunately it's one of these things where people take a very superficial view -- drop something in the water and a bunch of fish come and that's wonderful," federal fisheries biologist Jim Bohnsack told Newsweek magazine in a recent article titled "Are artificial reefs good for the environment?"

"The reality," Bohnsack added, "is not so simple."

Meier said previous studies have indicated that black sea bass have the potential to spawn on offshore reefs, and that the state may at some point declare a site offlimits for a year or so to give nature a rest.

Michael Zacchea, who devised the reef alternative for the New York City Transit Authority, recalled viewing footage of one site off South Carolina. Before subway cars were deployed, he said, the bottom "looked like the Sahara desert; I mean, there was no life there."

Within a year, though, the cars had become bastions of aquatic bounty, Zacchea said -- sea turtles, fish, invertebrates, plant life. "It had become an oasis in the desert," he said.

Starting in 1999, Zacchea has worked closely with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the Army Corps of Engineers to design a regulatory system that purges most contaminants from old subway cars and allows for their sinking.

It takes about 138 hours to prepare each car for submersion, he said, including a hot-steam power-washing of the interior and exterior. The first cars went overboard off Delaware in 2001, followed by another batch in Virginia in 2003.

Since then, Zacchea said, the program has "really taken off." More states have embraced it and media outlets from Japan, Germany and across the United States have produced stories and documentaries on the recycling initiative.

On Thursday, a crew from the Discovery Channel was filming the Virginia deployment and a French journalist was shooting footage for an upcoming show.

The day began in Ocean City, Maryland, where Zacchea and Virginia officials boarded a boat and motored two hours south to the reef site off Chincoteague. There, the boat met a barge that had chugged down from New York the previous day, stacked with the 44 subway cars like giant Legos.

Workers dropped buoys to mark where the cars were to be sunk. Then, working in a wide circle, a crane stabbed its forks under each car, swung to the side of the barge, and flipped the stainless steel hulks into the dark-green water. They hissed as they fell quickly to the bottom.

A companion boat, which one transit official called "the pooper scooper," followed behind and netted any loose debris -- a steel spring, a rubber hose, a shred of insulation material -- to keep the site clean.

Zacchea grinned as he watched the operation.

"I've been doing this for a while now, but it still excites me to see all this come together," he said. "Either I'm easily entertained or this is interesting stuff."
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Old July 9th, 2008, 06:29 AM   #670
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Quote:
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True, and the priorities are definitely set in the right place at the present time. National Security is definitely a much higher priority than mass transit. Governmental funding of system construction and expansions is one thing but the systems should not receive government funding to aid in operating costs, there should be covered by fares.
The war in Iraq is certainly not as important as mass transit. If the US invested more in mass transit, it wouldn't need to be in Iraq to steal its oil.

The US doesn't need to spend more than $500 billion a year to fight a bunch of clowns with Soviet Era Kalishikov rifles in third world countries.
Cut the defense budget in half and use the savings to invest in alternative energy and infrastructure.
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Old July 9th, 2008, 03:09 PM   #671
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The war in Iraq is certainly not as important as mass transit. If the US invested more in mass transit, it wouldn't need to be in Iraq to steal its oil.

The US doesn't need to spend more than $500 billion a year to fight a bunch of clowns with Soviet Era Kalishikov rifles in third world countries.
Cut the defense budget in half and use the savings to invest in alternative energy and infrastructure.
If you think were only in Iraq to steal oil you've got a lot to learn! How do you explain why we're in Afghanistan? Oh wait, we're stealing poppies there!

Investing more in mass transit would have a minuscule effect on our oil consumption of due to the nature of all America developed. Our cities are too spread out to make mass transit feasible in most cases.

As for the clowns with antique rifles, just look at what the Americans did during the American revolution and you'll see why this is such a difficult war to fight.
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Old July 9th, 2008, 03:18 PM   #672
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How do you explain why we're in Afghanistan? Oh wait, we're stealing poppies there!
If only you'd just cut down the consumption of poppy tarts you wouldn't have to be in A-stan in the first place and Americans would be skinnier too.
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Old July 9th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #673
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Is subway just some new word for subversive?
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Old July 10th, 2008, 04:00 AM   #674
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Is this a discussion of the NYC Subway.... or of American politics?
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Old July 10th, 2008, 06:18 AM   #675
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If you think were only in Iraq to steal oil you've got a lot to learn! How do you explain why we're in Afghanistan? Oh wait, we're stealing poppies there!

Investing more in mass transit would have a minuscule effect on our oil consumption of due to the nature of all America developed. Our cities are too spread out to make mass transit feasible in most cases.

As for the clowns with antique rifles, just look at what the Americans did during the American revolution and you'll see why this is such a difficult war to fight.
Did you ever stop to consider that America is in Afghanistan and Iraq for different reasons?

Reducing automobile usage would have an enormous effect on oil consumption. That is a fact. And so would increasing CAFE standards. Just as building more roads and allowing low density sprawl promotes automobile usage, investing in mass transit and denser development will promote the use of public transportation.

A poorly armed resistance can effectively wear down an invasion/occupying force ON THEIR OWN TERRITORY, but represent no threat to the occupying nation's sovereignty and safety.
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Old July 14th, 2008, 09:20 AM   #676
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Sneaking a free NYC subway ride may cost you $100
8 July 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - Be ready to shell out a Benjamin if you get caught sneaking a free ride on New York City's subway system. The fine for fare evasion has gone up to $100 from $60.

The change was designed by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to coincide with the start of new Select Bus Service on the Bx12 route in the Bronx. Riders pay before boarding the bus, and they must show receipts to inspectors.

So far this year, police have issued 41,090 tickets for fare evasion.

Police Transit Bureau Chief James P. Hall tells the New York Times in Monday editions that enforcement of fare evasion sometimes helps law enforcement catch people who are wanted for more serious crimes.

New York City Transit says it is also contemplating other fine increases.
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Old July 14th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #677
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So far this year, police have issued 41,090 tickets for fare evasion.
Any idea how many of these tickets were paid? If it's anything like parking tickets at the U.N. the number is very low!
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Old July 15th, 2008, 10:31 AM   #678
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^ Not sure where I can get the actual revenue $s from the tickets! I'd imagine the collection rate should be higher than the UN tickets. After all, they have diplomatic immunity!

Attention, Subway Riders: Pick Up After Yourselves
15 July 2008
The New York Times

The city's subwaymeisters are making another stab at trying to get New Yorkers not to be such slobs. That isn't quite how New York City Transit officials would phrase it. But that is what they are up to: going after the slobs.

New public-service advertisements began to appear in trains a few days ago urging riders to toss debris into trash cans, not onto the floors. The focus is on newspapers. When carelessly discarded, they blow all over and increase the risk of track fires.

When it comes to creating trash, however, New Yorkers are nothing if not catholic in their tastes. They'll throw anything to the ground, leaving it to some poor hard-working devil making minimum wage or close to it to pick up their mess.

There are so many of these self-centered louts that our immediate reaction to the transit agency's campaign might be rendered in Internet-speak as LOL. We don't mean Laughing Out Loud. The anti-trash effort is commendable. This LOL stands for Lots of Luck. You'd have a better shot at getting the gossip columns to ignore Brangelina than you would at persuading some New Yorkers to stop littering.

We can already hear cries of dissent from those who believe it is up to officialdom to provide the solutions for all problems.

The subways wouldn't be so dirty, some will say, if only New York City Transit would hire more sweepers. That is probably true. But there is such a thing as budget constraints.

Things wouldn't be so bad, others will say, if there were more trash cans on subway platforms. They have a point, too.

But the fact is that even when cans are right nearby, far too many subway passengers suffer a weird form of paralysis, special to New York. It renders them incapable of walking a few feet to the receptacle or of holding on to a coffee cup until they reach their destination.

As an example -- and it is hardly the most severe that one could find, just convenient -- the ride to work Monday began with the following items strewn across the platform near the main entrance to our regular subway station, the 86th Street stop on the No. 1 line:

Four MetroCards, three paper napkins, a copy of AM New York scattered in five parts, one soda can, one packet of an artificial sweetener, one candy wrapper, two balled-up pieces of paper and a cough-drop box. Much of this debris lay mere feet from a trash can.

Other stations surely have it worse. But the tracks at 86th Street were a sorry sight typical throughout the system. They were the resting place for 49 bottles and cans (including a beer can) and 78 MetroCards. If anything, this may have been an undercount. And it did not include heaven knows how many candy wrappers, fragments of newspapers, coffee cups, empty potato-chip bags and scraps of food providing a feast for the occasional rat scurrying along the rails.

Obviously, no one had swept there in a long while. That is management's bad. But the odds are high that the cans, bottles and cards did not march onto the tracks by themselves. That is the riders' bad.

All those MetroCards underscored their role in the litter problem, an unfortunate side effect of an otherwise good thing.

Little attention has been paid to the fact that this month is the 10th anniversary of MetroCards that allow an unlimited number of rides. For New Yorkers, the innovation was revolutionary. Appropriately, it went into effect on Independence Day, 1998. A year earlier, free MetroCard transfers between subways and buses came into being. In short order, the card turned the iconic subway token into a memory.

NOW, 93 percent of subway and bus fares are paid with MetroCards, according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. More than half involve unlimited-ride cards. Between those cards and the discounts offered on pay-per-ride cards, the average fare paid in April, the last month for which the authority had figures, was $1.33. That is well below the present base fare of $2. It is even below the $1.38 average fare paid back in April 1996. The MetroCard is clearly a bargain.

But all too many people casually toss used cards onto subway platforms and tracks. In this regard, subway managers have not been of much help.

They have placed special boxes in stations for the discarded slivers of plastic. But the boxes are often easily overlooked. Other times, they are stuffed to overflowing, with cards spilling every which way. Or their bottoms are flimsy, allowing cards to cascade to the floor. Coming up with a dependable container seems to have eluded the people in charge.

Maybe one day that will change; optimism is our default position. And maybe one day subway managers will persuade New Yorkers to mend their slovenly ways. But a safer bet is that the gossip columns will ask ''Brangelina who?'' long before something like that ever happens.
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Old July 16th, 2008, 01:28 AM   #679
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If New York used something similar to London's Oyster Card that may well solve the problem. If you forked out a few dollars in the first place to get your smart-card then you're hardly likely to throw it away. Plus non-contact smart cards have about a million other advantages.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 11:08 AM   #680
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2 New Subway Entrances Open at Columbus Circle
17 July 2008
The New York Times

Columbus Circle has seen enormous change since 2004: the opening of the Time Warner Center, the reconfiguration of the circle with a new public space, and the nearly completed conversion of Edward Durell Stone's 1964 "Lollipop Building" into the new home of the Museum of Arts and Design.

So the fanfare on Wednesday morning seemed justified when officials of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority formally opened two new stairways on the northwest corner of Broadway and 60th Street that lead into the subway station beneath the circle. About 50 yards away, a century-old entrance in the middle of a traffic island is scheduled to close to the public on July 28 for a renovation that is expected to last more than a year.

The two changes will have a subtle but noticeable effect on the 69,000 commuters estimated to use the 59th Street-Columbus Circle station each day. The station, which serves the No. 1 line as well as the A, B, C and D lines, is in the midst of a $108 million renovation.

The project, which began in 2006 and is expected to be completed next year, is intended to improve the flow of passengers through the often-congested station, which opened in 1904 and was expanded in 1932. The work involves the installation of a new elevator on the west side of Central Park West; other features to improve access for the disabled; upgrades of communications, lighting and electrical systems; and even an installation by the artist Sol LeWitt, who died last year.

The new subway entrances are part of a "control area" that cost $14 million and involved carving into the solid Manhattan schist while protecting a variety of crucial equipment used by utilities, including 20-inch and 32-inch city water mains, a 20-inch Con Edison steam pipe, and many smaller electric, gas and fiber-optic lines. The new entrances were built under concrete decking, which minimized the disruption to southbound traffic on Broadway.

The entrances take passengers directly to the downtown No. 1 subway platform from Broadway. They can get to the uptown No. 1 trains and the other subway lines using a variety of stairwells and passageways in the station.

"Funding for transportation is a scarce commodity, but we are doing everything we can with the resources we have available to improve the experience our customers have with us," said Elliot G. Sander, the chief executive of the transportation authority, who used a large pair of black-and-silver scissors to cut through a bright blue ribbon strung across the stairway entrance.

Passengers using the new subway entrances expressed broad approval.

"It's great," said Raj Virani, 30, an architect from Connecticut, who arrives in the city at Grand Central Terminal each week, then uses the subway to get to a work site near Columbus Circle. "I like to spend as little time as possible underground."

He added, "Coming out of the 1 train at this stop, you can wait a minute or two at the revolving gate while people filter out."

Stacie Ewing, 32, a student at the New York Institute of Technology nearby, said the new entrances would do away with the need to cross into heavy traffic to reach the old subway entrance on the traffic island.

"I think it's money well spent," she said.
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