daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 29th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #721
Msradell
Always looking up
 
Msradell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 1,773
Likes (Received): 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by philvia View Post
anyone else notice msradell lives in kentucky?

i think that would explain a lot about his urge for more freeways, traffic, and wasting resources!
That's where I live presently, I'm originally from New York and have also lived in South Carolina and France so I've got a good bases for my comments. I also notice you're from Tennessee which doesn't give you much insight into mass transit systems!
__________________
"Written using Dragon Naturally Speaking"
I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

mrsmartman liked this post
Msradell no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 29th, 2008, 04:24 PM   #722
hegneypl
Registered User
 
hegneypl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 44
Likes (Received): 8

Just wanted to throw this into the pot. Mary Peters, Secretary of Transportation wants to borrow money from mass-trasnit funds to make up the difference of highway taxes lost due the the reduction of driving done by U.S. citizens as of late. In the U.K., the taxes on fuel are astronomical, but they are used to it and it's figured in to daily living costs. Here, we still get gas on the cheap, but this suggestion by the government is ludicrous. They tell you not to drive and use less fuel. They tell you to use mass-transit whenever possible. Drive less, less tax revenue. Use mass-transit which will lose funding to keep it going, not to mention any type of improvements. That's exactly what NYC has done. There is no accountability with taxed funds left in this country. Moneys are collected and used for whatever they decide and we are instructed to do what they say. Raise the taxes on fuel. Stop funding pork and outside projects, such as a war we never should've started and get things back on track! Take the express to success! woo woo
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
hegneypl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 04:51 PM   #723
ramvid01
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 749
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
which it is not according to this:
http://www.citymayors.com/statistics...nsity-125.html

where LA is #90
San Fran/ Oakland is #104
NYC is #114



See the above. The table is flawed because some data is not exactly up to date, but mostly for the reason it freely mixes metroplitan area data for some cities with city limits data for others... but it can give you an idea, particularly if you know which one is which.

Even if one uses 8.3 mln within 1.200 sq km area (NYC city limits) - it is only 6900 people per sq. km - quite average by world standards and not within top ten in the world, unless you mean something like "in the free world" or " in the first world" or some other qualifier. But certainly not in THIS world.

Actually your completely wrong. That chart uses land area, of which New York City only has 304.8 miles or 789.4 Km which comes out to 10,387.
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
ramvid01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 09:36 PM   #724
anm
имярек
 
anm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Град Китеж
Posts: 3,139
Likes (Received): 5833

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramvid01 View Post
Actually your completely wrong. That chart uses land area, of which New York City only has 304.8 miles or 789.4 Km
which comes out to 10,387.
1. I think, to keep flame down, you should have said that in your opinion I was not entirely correct.

2. Regarding land area - see my reply to Msradell above. IMO it is not fair to use land area for NYC without considering similar factors for other cities.

3. in any case - 10,4 thousand per sq km is not an extremly high number by world standards, not in the top ten no matter how you play with stats.
__________________
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." George Orwell
"Всякая истина, выраженная словами, есть сила, действие которой беспредельно." Лев Толстой
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"Воображаемый мир приносит вполне реальные выгоды, если заставить жить в нем других." Веслав Брудзиньский

mrsmartman liked this post
anm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 12:17 AM   #725
jarbury
Resident Planner
 
jarbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 3,795
Likes (Received): 24

From memory Barack Obama's transportation policy involves a significant investment in mass transit. Not that I really want to turn this into a political debate.
__________________
All opinions are my own and not my employer's (or anyone else's).

mrsmartman liked this post
jarbury no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 02:20 AM   #726
hegneypl
Registered User
 
hegneypl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 44
Likes (Received): 8

The way I see it in 25 years is exactly the way it is in the U.K., Europe and Australia.....smaller cars, higher taxes, cars with better emissions and fuel management. We Americans will have to embrace the technology, like it or not. There will still be big guzzlers out there, but they will not be primary transportation any longer. I always liked larger cars until the newer smaller cars were made ergonomically better. My wife drives a little Hyundai Accent, which suits our needs for all local travel. I drive a Chrylser PTCruiser, which is larger, but still small enough and nimble enough and mediocre as far as fuel consumption is concerned. The nearest mass transit system to us is a small bus line that doesn't go anywhere near where we work. It stops running when the sun goes down. It's pointless. Philadelphia is 70 miles to the south and NYC is 100 miles to the east. We even have to drive our car to get to those places as the inter-city bus lines are now so expensive, that it's still cheaper to drive.
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
hegneypl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 04:38 AM   #727
Msradell
Always looking up
 
Msradell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 1,773
Likes (Received): 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
From memory Barack Obama's transportation policy involves a significant investment in mass transit. Not that I really want to turn this into a political debate.
If you don't want to turn this into a political debate how come he brought this up?
__________________
"Written using Dragon Naturally Speaking"
I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

mrsmartman liked this post
Msradell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 06:05 AM   #728
ramvid01
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 749
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
1. I think, to keep flame down, you should have said that in your opinion I was not entirely correct.

2. Regarding land area - see my reply to Msradell above. IMO it is not fair to use land area for NYC without considering similar factors for other cities.

3. in any case - 10,4 thousand per sq km is not an extremly high number by world standards, not in the top ten no matter how you play with stats.
I am not flaming you. I am just stating that your wrong. I didn't call you a name or anything.

As for land area the chart is using land area as it's basis. That is why I used land area.
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
ramvid01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 07:59 AM   #729
jarbury
Resident Planner
 
jarbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 3,795
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
If you don't want to turn this into a political debate how come he brought this up?
Well hegney was saying how current policy means that money is basically being stolen from mass tranist funds to go into highway maintenance. I was saying that may not always be the case, as one of the presidential candidates does have a pretty pro-mass transit transportation policy. I think that's fair enough.
__________________
All opinions are my own and not my employer's (or anyone else's).

mrsmartman liked this post
jarbury no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2008, 02:13 AM   #730
hegneypl
Registered User
 
hegneypl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 44
Likes (Received): 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
Well hegney was saying how current policy means that money is basically being stolen from mass tranist funds to go into highway maintenance. I was saying that may not always be the case, as one of the presidential candidates does have a pretty pro-mass transit transportation policy. I think that's fair enough.
That is only part of the problem. Railroads here hace vanished over the decades. Subways, like NY's are ingrained into their daily life. Large scale RR used to be that way, until cars came along. Then, people had the freedom to move around without paying the fees the RR's deemd necessary, which many citizens felt was too high. Amtrak is subsidized, but agin, depending on whom is in control, that funding can be pulled. The NY subways started out and private enterprises and when the city decided to compete, they eventually all merged.
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
hegneypl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2008, 02:19 AM   #731
jarbury
Resident Planner
 
jarbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 3,795
Likes (Received): 24

Fuel prices are going to change that I think. Public transport ridership is at record levels everywhere almost. Here in Auckland, New Zealand, ridership has increased 9% compared to this time last year!

The resurrection of the railroad will happen. Just need to electrify lines so that rapidly increasing deisel costs for rail aren't passed onto consumers.
__________________
All opinions are my own and not my employer's (or anyone else's).

mrsmartman liked this post
jarbury no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2008, 05:00 AM   #732
NYCboy1212
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 103
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
I found information elsewhere that says the area of the five boroughs is 789.43 sq km in the population is 8,200,000. This would make the density 10,387 which would put New York at number 19 on the list so it seems like the mayor's statistics are greatly skewed.
NYC with all five boroughs is 27,147 people per square mile which is 10,482/sqkm as of 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyc
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
NYCboy1212 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 03:11 PM   #733
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,925
Likes (Received): 18186

Some NYC subway trains to go seat-less
2 August 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - Finding a seat in a subway car during rush-hour is about to get more difficult.

New York City Transit officials are planning to roll out a pilot program featuring a train with flip-up seats in four of 10 cars. The seats will be locked in the up position during rush hour.

This way, officials hope to squeeze more people -- as many as 18 percent more -- inside such cars.

NYC Transit President Howard Roberts says the seats will be unlocked after rush hours.

The program starts in five to seven months. No word yet on which subway lines will get the retrofitted trains.

The Straphangers Campaign, an advocacy group, predicts the program would be unpopular among riders.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!

mrsmartman liked this post
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 02:08 AM   #734
sfgadv02
Registered User
 
sfgadv02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NY/HK
Posts: 755
Likes (Received): 44

IMO, all the IRT lines will have these retrofitted trains.
__________________
// Oh the IRONY!11! \\

mrsmartman liked this post
sfgadv02 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 03:04 AM   #735
Msradell
Always looking up
 
Msradell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 1,773
Likes (Received): 209

If New York follows the pattern in Tokyo after the seats are removed we'll see pushers stuffing as many people into each car! I'm sure even with 18% more people in the cars they'll still complain about not making a profit.
__________________
"Written using Dragon Naturally Speaking"
I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

mrsmartman liked this post
Msradell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 03:13 AM   #736
jarbury
Resident Planner
 
jarbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Auckland
Posts: 3,795
Likes (Received): 24

Can't they just run more trains? Oh... that requires money.
__________________
All opinions are my own and not my employer's (or anyone else's).

mrsmartman liked this post
jarbury no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 03:22 AM   #737
quashlo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,835
Likes (Received): 3215

Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell
If New York follows the pattern in Tokyo after the seats are removed we'll see pushers stuffing as many people into each car! I'm sure even with 18% more people in the cars they'll still complain about not making a profit.
1. I doubt you will see pushers in America... Too much liability in a country which loves litigation.

2. Why does the system need to turn a profit?
Public transportation is a public good... We don't expect highways or bridges to turn "profits," why should we expect a transit network to do the same? While there's certainly room to "cut the fat" with operating or capital expenses, you can only take it so far... At some point, one has to admit that the system is not getting the type of funding it needs and deserves.
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
quashlo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 04:33 AM   #738
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,925
Likes (Received): 18186

Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
1. I doubt you will see pushers in America... Too much liability in a country which loves litigation.

2. Why does the system need to turn a profit?
Public transportation is a public good... We don't expect highways or bridges to turn "profits," why should we expect a transit network to do the same? While there's certainly room to "cut the fat" with operating or capital expenses, you can only take it so far... At some point, one has to admit that the system is not getting the type of funding it needs and deserves.
Because you either pay for the loss through fare hikes or through taxes, and I doubt taxpayers are willing to fund someone else's transit woes. The money comes out of your pockets in the end, but just in a different way.

I think the most fair way of getting it is by the farebox. If a system is profitable, then only the users will need to share the burden. People who don't use transit won't need to pay for it at all even indirectly through other taxes.

You also need money to expand and maintain existing systems, and government funding doesn't always come readily to satisfy those needs. Hence, it's important to keep things at break-even at minimum.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!

mrsmartman liked this post
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 05:57 AM   #739
quashlo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,835
Likes (Received): 3215

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
I think the most fair way of getting it is by the farebox.
The roadway user has been getting a bargain for decades now because government policy (at least in the US) has been geared towards encouraging the use of private automobiles. In a reverse of your argument, I don't use a car, but I'm still paying so other people can use theirs. How is that any more fair than funding a transit system that doesn't break even? If we charged the transit user what it actually costs to provide that transit, I would expect we'd see a large shift of people from transit to autos, even in our current situation of high gasoline prices.

If we really wanted to be "fair," we'd increase gasoline taxes, unbundle parking from residential units, charge market rate for parking, etc., and internalize the true cost of driving to the driver. I'm not a fan of bloated transit projects with poor ridership projections, but the only way to remedy the situation we have in the US is to step away from dependence on private autos and embrace transit and transit-oriented development.
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
quashlo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2008, 06:17 AM   #740
Msradell
Always looking up
 
Msradell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 1,773
Likes (Received): 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
Can't they just run more trains? Oh... that requires money.
And taking out seats saves money!
__________________
"Written using Dragon Naturally Speaking"
I've learned that depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

mrsmartman liked this post
Msradell no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
метро, metro, new york city, subway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium