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Old February 14th, 2009, 10:22 PM   #861
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I quite like the Kick Map... At the end of the day, the map needs to be easy to read, and that one is...

Is that in use or just a proposal?
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Old February 15th, 2009, 02:24 AM   #862
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Doesn't the G train provide decent links between Queens and Brooklyn? Maybe it just needs to be extended to the Bronx somehow?
G train is often under-scheduled (not enough service).

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That kick map is such an improvement... Not only does it add more information, but it is way more aesthetically pleasing.
Kickmap is more in line with the London Underground/Euro-Asian metro systems' maps. Many tourists I've encountered have criticized the NYC subway map for being confusing. I would like to see the MTA adopt this map.
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Old February 15th, 2009, 02:41 AM   #863
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MoMA takes over the subway
The modern art museum replaces all ads with art in a Brooklyn station





BY: KUNUR PATEL PUBLISHED: FEB 12, 2009

Until March 15, a subway transfer in Brooklyn can also be a quick lesson in modern art history. For MoMA, New York City's modern and contemporary art museum, happycorp replaced every ad space in the Atlantic Avenue/Pacific Street station with reproductions of works from its permanent collection, transforming a grimy New York subway into an interactive art exhibit. See images from the exhibit, below.

From Monet's water lilies and Picasso's "Les Demoiselles d'Avignon" to art that looks a lot like a neon sign, subway riders can view the 58 images of art with many of the resources found in the actual museum. Street teams handed out brochures and maps of the exhibit, so riders could identify and locate work throughout the station. On the campaign website, users can download an audio tour for further information about 10 pieces on display. Happycorp also created an interactive voice response system for the station's public phones. Users can call a posted 1-800 number to get information about the project or be connected with the museum's membership department. The IVR will also cue callers to type in a three-digit code for a specific piece of artwork and then play informational audio for that piece. Museum educators also gave tours of the subway exhibit.

In summer 2007,The Grand Tour was a campaign for the National Gallery in the U.K., with Hewlett-Packard, that found select paintings in the streets of London's West End. Walkers could interact with the art displays via maps, tours and a downloadable audio guide. The campaign won design gold at Cannes in 2008.





Doug Jaeger, CEO and founder of thehappycorp global, acknowledges MoMA Atlantic/Pacific's similarity to the National Gallery effort, though points out marked differences. Jaeger is a member of MoMA's marketing advisory committee, which also includes Pentagram's Paula Scher, Gerry Graf and 2x4 cofounder Michael Rock.

"We wanted to do something very true to the New York experience, so we picked one of the largest stations in the subway network," Jaeger says. "We worked with CBS outdoor to increase the number of ad spaces available, so we could really increase the density of the art experience. There are additional vinyls up on the 4,5 and 2,3 trains."

"We were transforming the subway into the museum experience, not just bringing artwork into the public space," he continues.

Jaegar says the campaign is intended to drive membership of people who commute to Manhattan from Brooklyn. "It's a 24/7 experience. We want the MoMA and the art at the MoMA to be as accessible as possible."





The subway turnstiles and pillars in the station are also MoMA branded. The campaign was revealed on February 10, after a teaser campaign that blocked out every ad space with a black sign that read "installation in progress."

MoMA's in-house design team handled design and branding for the campaign. Julia Hoffmann, MoMA's cd for advertising and graphics says the campaign's large, simple and repeated messaging was meant to communicate instantaneously with the busy commuter. "The double sided arrow suggests movement, going from A to B, from home to work from buying groceries to meeting a friend and vice versa and the pink is loud and is not competing with any of the colors of the NYC subway lines," she says.

The museum's latest graphic identity was developed with Scher and Pentagram. Prior to her MoMA role, Hoffman has spent time at Pentagram, as well as Crispin, Porter + Bogusky.



Monet, Water lilies.


Vincent Van Gogh, 'Starry Night'


Frank Lloyd Wright, stained glass, left.


Pablo Picasso. 'Les Demoiselles d'Avignon' 1907.


http://creativity-online.com/?action...ehind_the_work
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Old February 16th, 2009, 01:21 AM   #864
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A Forest in the Subway





By Miranda Siegel
Published Feb 8, 2009

When commuters push through the turnstiles at the new South Ferry Terminal in a few weeks, they’ll find themselves surrounded by an arabesque of glass panels depicting intertwined silhouettes of trees—a lyrical, $1 million installation by the identical-twin artists Mike and Doug Starn. See It Split, See It Change reveals a parallel between the trees’ veiny structure and the gnarliness of the century-old subway. “We view cities as complex organisms made up of various systems, and we wanted to work with images of nature to help bring that through,” explains Doug, who with his brother has employed sinuous and knotty bark before, in the series Structure of Thought. The Starns spoke to New York about their new work, one of the MTA’s most ambitious “Arts for Transit” projects.

1. The Location
“The South Ferry station is thought of as just the terminus of the 1 train,” says Mike. “But we see it as the beginning of the city, from which everything else branches out.”

2. The Map
The marble mosaic is based on a 1640 image of Manhattan. “There’s a way to do contemporary mosaics in the subway, but we wanted to take it back,” says Mike. “So we spent time in Pompeii studying.”

3. The Collaboration
The Starns worked closely with the MTA’s architects and even had a say about issues like the placement of doors. “It’s the first time the art has been part of the process from the get-go,” says Mike.

4. The Links
Many of the outlines come from photos taken in Battery Park. “Trees have a hierarchal structure: trunk, branches, leaves,” says Doug. “When you flatten the images, you collapse that hierarchy—and suddenly connections happen everywhere.”

5. The Armor
Yes, it’s glass. In the subway. But at least it’s toughened: “It’s fused, which gives it resistance equivalent to tempered glass,” says Doug. It’s also hung as its own curtain wall, to avoid damage from behind.


http://nymag.com/arts/art/features/54053/
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Old February 16th, 2009, 10:23 AM   #865
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The only reason the NYC Subway has express tracks is because of history. So why are you implying that it is because the authorities invest in a 4 track system? If history were to give NYC a 2 track system then I doubt they'd maintain it any better, and it wouldn't be "pretty".
You're right about that. NYC, more often than not, doesn't know how to do shit with tax payers money. But it probably also doesn't get as much federal funding as the european counterparts everyone compares it to.

But my point wasn't about that I could really care less if the station is modernized and pretty as long as it's a 24 hour system with more than just 5 subway lines. I can take the subway home at 4:00am and travel from the North Bronx to Bay Ridge for $2.00 (flat rate, not by distance either!) instead of dropping X amount of $ on a cab. (the distance from where I work in SoHo to my house in Queens would be a $50-60 cab ride, so knothnxbye)

People say NYC subways are crap, outdated, and disgusting, but it's the largest, the busiest, serving the city with the largest population in the country, and only 24 hour system in the world. And for all the things it does to benefit the epicenter of American arts, culture, and business, it's vastly underfunded from the federal government. IMO.

Let me put it this way: How about you try repairing a toilet with roughly 6 million people shitting in it 24 hours a day 365 days a year without completely stopping service?
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Old February 16th, 2009, 10:54 AM   #866
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Considering the confusion that even New Yorkers experience when it comes to local/express and crossover stations (turning back when going the wrong way), the MTA would be wise to adopt the amazing "Kick Map" shown on the right from the official site's comparison page.






Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.

Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all... But I still have a feeling tourists will be confused by any subway map, regardless of how many track-lines shown. I mean you have to actually know where you going, or at least have some idea, to understand either of those maps.

For example, you have to know that Harlem is in the borough of Manhattan in order to figure out your best route to Harlem. I really have lost count on the number of times I've encountered tourists who don't know that Harlem is not it's own borough...
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Old February 16th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #867
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Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.

Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all... But I still have a feeling tourists will be confused by any subway map, regardless of how many track-lines shown. I mean you have to actually know where you going, or at least have some idea, to understand either of those maps.

For example, you have to know that Harlem is in the borough of Manhattan in order to figure out your best route to Harlem. I really have lost count on the number of times I've encountered tourists who don't know that Harlem is not it's own borough...
The problem is that tourists don't bother to learn the basic facts; they seem to think that everything will come to them by osmosis. The first thing to know is that New York is composed of five boroughs: Manhattan, Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn & Staten Island. Everything else sort of derives from there, but you have to be aware of that basic division first.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 08:26 PM   #868
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Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.
Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all...
That's because you know where everything goes, which lines are express, etc.
From the perspective of someone who's not a New Yorker, it's confusing to see a single line on the map representing multiple train lines and then find out that not every train line represented stops at each station. It makes much, much more sense to represent each train line with its own line on the map, just like the Kick Map.
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Old February 16th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #869
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Yes I think the Kick map makes a lot more sense. Of course locals don't find their system confusing - they've used it hundreds or thousands of times. The true test of a system is how easy it is for tourists to use.

I think London and Paris have systems that are generally very easy to navigate, though the London Map is a bit more easily readable that the Paris Metro map, where it can be a bit of a mission following the line of a route.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 01:45 AM   #870
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You're right about that. NYC, more often than not, doesn't know how to do shit with tax payers money. But it probably also doesn't get as much federal funding as the european counterparts everyone compares it to.

But my point wasn't about that I could really care less if the station is modernized and pretty as long as it's a 24 hour system with more than just 5 subway lines. I can take the subway home at 4:00am and travel from the North Bronx to Bay Ridge for $2.00 (flat rate, not by distance either!) instead of dropping X amount of $ on a cab. (the distance from where I work in SoHo to my house in Queens would be a $50-60 cab ride, so knothnxbye)

People say NYC subways are crap, outdated, and disgusting, but it's the largest, the busiest, serving the city with the largest population in the country, and only 24 hour system in the world. And for all the things it does to benefit the epicenter of American arts, culture, and business, it's vastly underfunded from the federal government. IMO.

Let me put it this way: How about you try repairing a toilet with roughly 6 million people shitting in it 24 hours a day 365 days a year without completely stopping service?
Isn't it a well known fact that the dirtier and messier a station is, the more likely there is to be petty crime? Take a look at the Washington Metro; the stations are spartan and clean and apparently it's crime-free. I doubt travelling through unpleasant stations help the morale of the people using the system, either.

I think your undermining the importance of maintaining the stations at the most basic level... We're not talking about "pretty" we're talking about picking up the rubbish from the floor...

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Originally Posted by django89 View Post
Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.

Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all... But I still have a feeling tourists will be confused by any subway map, regardless of how many track-lines shown. I mean you have to actually know where you going, or at least have some idea, to understand either of those maps.

For example, you have to know that Harlem is in the borough of Manhattan in order to figure out your best route to Harlem. I really have lost count on the number of times I've encountered tourists who don't know that Harlem is not it's own borough...
The kick map is far tidier and more pleasing on the eye, the routes are clearer, the lines are straighter, even the colours used are more attractive. IMO the current map is a spaghetti mess, and not in a good way.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 04:17 AM   #871
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art and subway always go great together.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 01:45 PM   #872
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i'm surpised NYC subway havent some digilal ads into stations as London has...is there a forbidding for those kinds of ads. by the way, the subway isnt also filled in a lot of printed ads...can someone explain to me the reasons...
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Old February 17th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #873
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This map on wikipedia is rather good - it's simpler than the Kick Map (by not showing surface features like roads and neighbourhoods on there, and removing the exact geographicalness of the Kick Map). It shows rushhour/off peak services nicely as well as local and express.

The biggest problem I think there is with decent NYS maps is that they have to be massive to fit everything on.
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Old February 18th, 2009, 01:01 AM   #874
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i'm surpised NYC subway havent some digilal ads into stations as London has...is there a forbidding for those kinds of ads. by the way, the subway isnt also filled in a lot of printed ads...can someone explain to me the reasons...
It's because it is too expensive for the MTA to install them, and it will most likely get vandalized.

The subway is filled with a lot of printed ads, they're on the platform and station walls. But they are prone to vandalism since they are not protected by anything (unless its the newer, light box ones).
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Old February 18th, 2009, 02:36 AM   #875
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Isn't it a well known fact that the dirtier and messier a station is, the more likely there is to be petty crime? Take a look at the Washington Metro; the stations are spartan and clean and apparently it's crime-free. I doubt travelling through unpleasant stations help the morale of the people using the system, either.

I think your undermining the importance of maintaining the stations at the most basic level... We're not talking about "pretty" we're talking about picking up the rubbish from the floor...



The kick map is far tidier and more pleasing on the eye, the routes are clearer, the lines are straighter, even the colours used are more attractive. IMO the current map is a spaghetti mess, and not in a good way.
I never heard that one about crime. I mean, it might make sense, but Paris metro is in a lot better condition and is cleaner than NYC, but petty crime is rampant there, so I don't think the cleanliness of a station has anything to do with that. I think crime rates have more to do with large populations and other factors like cost of living. Paris and NYC are much more populated than DC and are much more expensive to live in. I think when one is under such economic pressure, plus lots of targets (with a lot of commotion, It's easy to pick pocket someone when there's a million things going around you), I think that attributes more to crime than the cleanliness than the station.

As far as rubbish on the floor. It's not as bad people make it out to be. Just last night I was in 3 stations, 6 @ Spring, 6 - 7 Grand Central, and 7 Main Street, and I didn't see much trash on the floor. Maybe a gum wrapper, but that's it. The tracks, that's a different story. I think what makes the stations look run down, is more the rust stains dripping down walls, paint chipping, broken/missing/ tiles that have been haphazardly replaced.

As far as rubbish on the floor, I think they should enforce strict laws against littering. Not a death penalty or anything, but heavy fines. Maybe hours of community service. I think generally people are really unappreciative of the wonderful subway system they have, and do treat it like shit, littering and spitting everywhere.

And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)

I mean, it's no coincidence that when they subways came into the hands of the government they are in the condition they are in. It took the companies building the subways less than 30 years to lay down most of the tracks and stations you see today (except with beautiful, ornate kiosks, information booths and tile-work), but in the hands of NYC government it's been 80 years since the 2nd Ave proposal, and 20 years since digging started on the tunnel. Hmm... It might be in the City's best interest to put the subways in the hands of private industry again. Maybe then we can see it restored and modernized.



Former City Hall Station. Turn-of-the-century Post card. See what I mean? It was truly beautiful.
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Old February 18th, 2009, 05:25 AM   #876
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I never heard that one about crime. I mean, it might make sense, but Paris metro is in a lot better condition and is cleaner than NYC, but petty crime is rampant there, so I don't think the cleanliness of a station has anything to do with that. I think crime rates have more to do with large populations and other factors like cost of living. Paris and NYC are much more populated than DC and are much more expensive to live in. I think when one is under such economic pressure, plus lots of targets (with a lot of commotion, It's easy to pick pocket someone when there's a million things going around you), I think that attributes more to crime than the cleanliness than the station.

As far as rubbish on the floor. It's not as bad people make it out to be. Just last night I was in 3 stations, 6 @ Spring, 6 - 7 Grand Central, and 7 Main Street, and I didn't see much trash on the floor. Maybe a gum wrapper, but that's it. The tracks, that's a different story. I think what makes the stations look run down, is more the rust stains dripping down walls, paint chipping, broken/missing/ tiles that have been haphazardly replaced.

As far as rubbish on the floor, I think they should enforce strict laws against littering. Not a death penalty or anything, but heavy fines. Maybe hours of community service. I think generally people are really unappreciative of the wonderful subway system they have, and do treat it like shit, littering and spitting everywhere.

And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)

I mean, it's no coincidence that when they subways came into the hands of the government they are in the condition they are in. It took the companies building the subways less than 30 years to lay down most of the tracks and stations you see today (except with beautiful, ornate kiosks, information booths and tile-work), but in the hands of NYC government it's been 80 years since the 2nd Ave proposal, and 20 years since digging started on the tunnel. Hmm... It might be in the City's best interest to put the subways in the hands of private industry again. Maybe then we can see it restored and modernized.



Former City Hall Station. Turn-of-the-century Post card. See what I mean? It was truly beautiful.
Firstly, the Paris Metro's stations aren't particularly clean.

Also, paragraphs 2 and 3 kinda contradict each other.
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Old February 18th, 2009, 10:16 PM   #877
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As far as rubbish on the floor, I think they should enforce strict laws against littering. Not a death penalty or anything, but heavy fines. Maybe hours of community service. I think generally people are really unappreciative of the wonderful subway system they have, and do treat it like shit, littering and spitting everywhere.

And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)
Unfortunately, transit cops or the NYPD don't give a rat's A about people violating rules of conduct, like littering. What we need is Singaporean-style police enforcement of rules. And littering also has something to do with the customs and culture of some people.

I agree with you 100% about the gov't funding mass transit-unfortunately, the US is still generally car-friendly. Even the most recent stimulus bill passed by Congress includes tens of billions for highways and road networks, but only < $10 Billion for mass transit.
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Old February 19th, 2009, 08:05 AM   #878
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Unfortunately, transit cops or the NYPD don't give a rat's A about people violating rules of conduct, like littering. What we need is Singaporean-style police enforcement of rules. And littering also has something to do with the customs and culture of some people.

I agree with you 100% about the gov't funding mass transit-unfortunately, the US is still generally car-friendly. Even the most recent stimulus bill passed by Congress includes tens of billions for highways and road networks, but only < $10 Billion for mass transit.
Yeah. America needs less cars now goddamnit! And with the new stimulus package, in ration of spending to population, it appears DC is getting more money. (NY state, is getting more in dollars, but in comparison to population it's not as much DC, NY is something like $170 per capita, where DC is equally to $400+) And the world wonders why D.C. has a better subway system... Ug.
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Old February 19th, 2009, 08:26 AM   #879
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Firstly, the Paris Metro's stations aren't particularly clean.

Also, paragraphs 2 and 3 kinda contradict each other.
Well, insert practically any city's, Paris, Tokyo, D.C., etc. metro and it's probably in better all around condition than NY.

I don't think they do contradict each other. One was saying it's not as bad as people make it out to be. The second said, if people do litter, they should be punished.
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Old February 21st, 2009, 02:30 AM   #880
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And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)

I mean, it's no coincidence that when they subways came into the hands of the government they are in the condition they are in. It took the companies building the subways less than 30 years to lay down most of the tracks and stations you see today (except with beautiful, ornate kiosks, information booths and tile-work), but in the hands of NYC government it's been 80 years since the 2nd Ave proposal, and 20 years since digging started on the tunnel. Hmm... It might be in the City's best interest to put the subways in the hands of private industry again. Maybe then we can see it restored and modernized.
The system would get worse if it was privatized. The only thing a private company wants to do is make a profit, and that would mean jacking up fares immensely and skimping on safety.

Government doesn't have to spend money poorly- I think local transit agencies do a pretty good job considering how limited their resources are. Elect better politicians and money will be spent more wisely. If we had a better media, it would call out the government when it spends money unwisely.
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