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Old March 25th, 2009, 04:26 PM   #941
Rasputin1970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
The MTA needs a more stable funding source- similar to that of Paris' mass transit system.

Income taxes and federal subsidies should account for more of the funding instead of sales and real estate transaction taxes. A federal law guaranteeing funding should be passed. That is the way it works in France.

It is amazing how the solutions to most of America's problems have already been found- in other countries. How about we get rid of our "America is the best" mindset and realize that we can learn from other countries.
Why should I pay more taxes so MTA in NYC will get more salary? How about breaking the union and allow competition for transportation?
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Old March 25th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #942
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MTA approves Doomsday budget
Wednesday, March 25, 2009 | 11:37 AM

by Lakisha Bostick; Eyewitness News

NEW YORK (WABC) -- The MTA board voted for fare hikes that will raise cost of subway ride 25 percent.

The transit officials voted in favor of the hikes during a Wednesday morning meeting.

By a 12-1 vote, the board of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority adopted the fare increases to help close a $1.2 billion gap.

Fare hikes are not expected to take effect until June. Bridge and tunnel prices would go up July 11. All the cuts, such as eliminating 21 bus routes and laying off 1,100 people, would happen in the fall. It gives everybody enough time for negotiations, but the MTA isn't willing to wait.

As it now stands, the MTA board is expected to go up on its tolls and fares:

# The base cost of a subway ride -- will go from $2 to $2.50.
# If you ride a commuter line -- your fare will rise 26-percent.
# The LIRR fare, from Bellmore to Penn Station -- will jump from $211/mo. to $285.
# A monthly metrocard will go from $81 to $103.

The agency planned to vote later Wednesday on drastic service cuts.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...fic&id=6727243
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Old March 25th, 2009, 10:32 PM   #943
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Old March 26th, 2009, 05:03 AM   #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin1970 View Post
Why should I pay more taxes so MTA in NYC will get more salary? How about breaking the union and allow competition for transportation?
You need to lose this mindset that every tax dollar you pay must come back and benefit you directly somehow. That's not the way it works.

Furthermore, the MTA deficit is from declining revenues, not excessive costs.

And I bet you don't bitch about all the federal money Miami has received for hurricane cleanup and repair-which includes MY tax dollars.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:33 AM   #945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin1970 View Post
Why should I pay more taxes so MTA in NYC will get more salary? How about breaking the union and allow competition for transportation?
why should i pay taxes to build your roads down in southern florida?
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Old March 26th, 2009, 09:05 AM   #946
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because my taxes just paid for your new subway station and your 4 other projects.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 03:41 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
You need to lose this mindset that every tax dollar you pay must come back and benefit you directly somehow. That's not the way it works.

Furthermore, the MTA deficit is from declining revenues, not excessive costs.

And I bet you don't bitch about all the federal money Miami has received for hurricane cleanup and repair-which includes MY tax dollars.
Raising taxes will not solve the problem of insolvency of MTA. how many times did they raise the prices and shrink the service? Too many.
so the solution like in GM should be - get rid of unions and allow competition. Once subway did belong to private owners - it was built in merely 30 years - almost all that exists today. Today it is hardly moving anywhere.
Besides - declining revenues are everywhere. so the first thing to do - is too cut your costs. Though it is hard to imagine how MTA has declining revenues while everyone else in public transportation report huge business due to high gas prices including always insolvent Amtrak. Something is wrong here with their system, not with customers.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 06:17 PM   #948
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Old March 26th, 2009, 08:58 PM   #949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin1970 View Post
Raising taxes will not solve the problem of insolvency of MTA. how many times did they raise the prices and shrink the service? Too many.
so the solution like in GM should be - get rid of unions and allow competition. Once subway did belong to private owners - it was built in merely 30 years - almost all that exists today. Today it is hardly moving anywhere.
Besides - declining revenues are everywhere. so the first thing to do - is too cut your costs. Though it is hard to imagine how MTA has declining revenues while everyone else in public transportation report huge business due to high gas prices including always insolvent Amtrak. Something is wrong here with their system, not with customers.
there is not a private business in the world capable of owning/managing the nyc subway.
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Old March 27th, 2009, 12:05 AM   #950
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Get Your Facts Straight (Please, for the sake of progress)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin1970 View Post
Raising taxes will not solve the problem of insolvency of MTA. how many times did they raise the prices and shrink the service? Too many.
so the solution like in GM should be - get rid of unions and allow competition. Once subway did belong to private owners - it was built in merely 30 years - almost all that exists today. Today it is hardly moving anywhere.
Besides - declining revenues are everywhere. so the first thing to do - is too cut your costs. Though it is hard to imagine how MTA has declining revenues while everyone else in public transportation report huge business due to high gas prices including always insolvent Amtrak. Something is wrong here with their system, not with customers.
  • Although unions do not have as much power as they used to, they are still a threat, but this is not the major problem right now
  • True, the NYCS was built rather quickly b/c they had 3 companies to build & manage them. But the problem that we get today is that there are multiple lines serving the same area/not enough serving others/non-standard infrastructure which all leads to inefficiencies in operation & maintenance. The companies were only interested in profit-making. When you have a mass transit system, it is better to have a natural monopoly (such as gas/electric companies).
  • Please subscribe to a blog such as Second Avenue Sagas or The Transport Politic: The revenues from increased ridership are not enough to make up for the huge losses (hundreds of millions) from disappearing real estate taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dachacon View Post
because my taxes just paid for your new subway station and your 4 other projects.
Yes, but the mistake the US made back then was that we built too many roads...and not enough mass transit. As one of the oldest mass transit systems in the world, the NYC subway is in dire need for upgraded infrastructure as well as new ones in order to make sure that the growing population can get to work. Whether you want to believe it or not, NYC is the nation's largest economic hub and it needs ways to get ppl to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philvia View Post
there is not a private business in the world capable of owning/managing the nyc subway.
I bet the Hong Kong MTR can do the job...if they had absolute control over the system's operations...and none of that bureaucratic red tape...
(They are already one of the world's top grossing railway operators, and are under contract with Shanghai/Shenzhen/Stockholm/London rail operators.)

World's Most Successful Subway?
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Old March 28th, 2009, 01:06 AM   #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin1970 View Post
Raising taxes will not solve the problem of insolvency of MTA. how many times did they raise the prices and shrink the service? Too many.
so the solution like in GM should be - get rid of unions and allow competition. Once subway did belong to private owners - it was built in merely 30 years - almost all that exists today. Today it is hardly moving anywhere.
Besides - declining revenues are everywhere. so the first thing to do - is too cut your costs. Though it is hard to imagine how MTA has declining revenues while everyone else in public transportation report huge business due to high gas prices including always insolvent Amtrak. Something is wrong here with their system, not with customers.
The NYC subway has also seen huge ridership gains over the past decade- but fares do not cover the operating costs so subsidies are needed. The same is true of any road in the USA. Roads don't generate money, thus they are "insolvent" as well, but you don't bitch about paying taxes to fund them do you?

Subway construction is expensive because land values and labor are more expensive- which wasn't the case 100 years ago. You could treat your workers like shit and it was no big deal if 100 of them died working on a subway line. Thankfully that is no longer the case.

And if you want to pay $10 to ride the subway, then by all means privatize the service- you will get shitty maintenance and safety because all a private company wants to do is make money. Unlike a private company, the MTA doesn't need to generate a profit to please its investors and shareholders, and can thus focus on providing a good service.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 08:12 PM   #952
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A history of NYC subway and bus fare increases
By The Associated Press
25 March 2009

A history of fare increases for New York City subway and bus lines.

-- Oct. 27, 1904, subway opens, fare of 5 cents.

-- July 1, 1948, increases to 10 cents.

-- July 25, 1953, 15 cents; fares now apply to bus lines.

-- July 5, 1966, 20 cents.

-- Jan. 1, 1970, 30 cents.

-- Jan. 1, 1972, 35 cents.

-- Sept. 1, 1975, 50 cents.

-- June 29, 1980, 60 cents.

-- July 4, 1981, 75 cents.

-- Jan. 1 1984, 90 cents.

-- Jan. 1, 1986, $1.

-- Jan. 1, 1990, $1.15.

-- Jan. 1, 1992, $1.25.

-- Nov. 12, 1995, $1.50.

-- July 4, 1997, free transfers between buses and subways begin.

-- July 4, 1998, unlimited-ride MetroCards introduced. A 30-day card costs $63.

-- May 4, 2003, single-ride fare increases 33 percent to $2. Thirty-day MetroCard increases 11 percent to $70.

-- Feb. 27, 2005 - Thirty-day card, $76.

-- March 2, 2008 - Thirty-day card, $81.

-- March 25, 2009 -- Base subway and bus fare rises 25 percent from $2 to $2.50, 30-day MetroCard goes up to $103 from $81, effective May 31.
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Old March 28th, 2009, 11:51 PM   #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
A history of NYC subway and bus fare increases
By The Associated Press
25 March 2009

A history of fare increases for New York City subway and bus lines.

-- Oct. 27, 1904, subway opens, fare of 5 cents.

...

-- March 25, 2009 -- Base subway and bus fare rises 25 percent from $2 to $2.50, 30-day MetroCard goes up to $103 from $81, effective May 31.
Made a graph FYI:
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Old March 29th, 2009, 07:34 AM   #954
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Legislature plans fix for NYC transit budget
27 March 2009

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - After taking heat from straphangers and in headlines, state legislative leaders said Friday that they expect to have a plan within days to head off steep fares hikes and reduced service for the financially troubled Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Senate Majority Leader Malcolm Smith, who had backed competing proposals, wouldn't say Friday what the deal would include. They said they will seek a consensus among their members behind closed doors.

They said an agreement is expected at or around the time the state budget is due, by the end of Tuesday.

Through a spokesman, Gov. David Paterson declined to comment.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority Board voted Wednesday to impose fare hikes and painful service cuts to close a $1.2 billion budget gap.

The plan calls for the base fare on city subways and buses to rise from $2 to $2.50, elimination of two subway lines and 35 bus routes and reduction of service on other lines. Fares would rise on commuter rail lines, and bridge and tunnel tolls would increase. Without a state bailout, the changes could be implemented this summer.

Smith noted that Moody's Investors Service, a leading credit ratings service, warned Thursday that it has concerns about the MTA's financial health. Moody's said a downgrade of the authority's bond rating is possible if its finances don't improve and that could cost the authority millions more in borrowing costs.

"The critical thing is everybody understands what the crisis is," Smith said, indicating that Albany's conflicts over competing plans are dissipating. "We are going to work straight through the weekend, and I'm confident."

Silver announced the apparent breakthrough after a closed-door meeting with Smith and Paterson.

"We both reject the MTA board action," Silver said of himself and Smith, who stood next to him as he spoke. "And maybe the action makes it real in peoples' minds. It makes people flexible, and we focused on it. It's still an emergency. It's still timely."

On Friday, the Straphangers Campaign of the New York Public Interest Research Group handed out 3,500 leaflets at Times Square objecting to the fare increases and other changes in the MTA board's plan.

"This has really entered into the consciousness of New Yorkers," said Gene Russianoff, staff attorney for the campaign. "People grabbed the leaflets out of your hand and pat you on the back. It's not just MTA bashing. It's, `I'm going to call the governor and call the legislators.'"

Recent editorials, including one in The New York Times sarcastically headlined "Thanks a lot, Albany," may have helped the New York City lawmakers back to the table, too. It stated: "A plan to spare most of this transit agony is stuck in Albany."

On Wednesday, the New York Daily News' front page screamed: "We're mad as hell!" and included the phone numbers of Albany legislative leaders, saying it's time to "Tee off on the Bums."
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Old March 29th, 2009, 05:52 PM   #955
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The ceiling looks quite low. This is just a renovation, right?
the ceiling is low because in New York, unlike other cities, the ground is bedrock, which is expensive and difficult to dig into, which is why the subway does not go very far below ground. Bedrock has allowed earlier skyscrapers to be built though. That's why when you go to Washington D.C, the subway has such high ceilings, because the ground is more marshy/ sandy
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Old March 30th, 2009, 02:18 AM   #956
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It is a really bad idea to raise fares and cut service in a recession. People are already hurting financially and more people are going to be using public transit to save money, especially if they are unemployed.
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Old March 30th, 2009, 05:33 AM   #957
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The subway is a charity?
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Old March 30th, 2009, 07:08 AM   #958
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The subway is a charity?
well maybe for the panhandlers.

the point is that the system cannot maintain its current services and finance the infrastructure improvements (rebuilding of track/stations plus expansion of the system like the 7 line and SAS) without help from the government. whether that 'government help' is a short term cash inflow or a continuous long-term subsidy is to be determined. investing in the system today will cost us less in the future to maintain it and have it run smoothly in the future for the next few decades
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Old April 1st, 2009, 03:04 AM   #959
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hi guis ,, how much does a token cost ???????
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Old April 1st, 2009, 07:38 AM   #960
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what? tokens still exist in the NYC Subway?
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