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Old July 24th, 2009, 12:55 PM   #1001
ArthurK
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I'm a lot more optimistic about the SAS. The current projection is july 2016 with possible further delay to 2017, according to the New York Times of july 21st. Phase 2 should be very easy to build, while it's just 6 blocks cut and cover tunneling and a TBM from 120th to 125th street. If the construction of phase 2 starts in 2014 as planned, both phase 1 and 2 might be completed in 2018.

Phase 3 and 4 will be more difficult. I might even favor an extension into the Bronx over phase 3 and 4. I think such an extension would involve a new tunnel under Harlem river, and then a connection to one or two of the existing subway lines in the Bronx. It doesn't has to involve a completely new subway in the Bronx.
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Old July 25th, 2009, 04:56 AM   #1002
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I guess I was a little too pessimistic, especially with this recent estimate. All I'm saying is that BRT could still serve to reduce congestion and do it at a lower price...again, not as efficient, but if it's going to take another 30 years to see the SAS complete, I'd rather have BRT.

Or how about light rail running on the surface?

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Phase 3 and 4 will be more difficult. I might even favor an extension into the Bronx over phase 3 and 4. I think such an extension would involve a new tunnel under Harlem river, and then a connection to one or two of the existing subway lines in the Bronx. It doesn't has to involve a completely new subway in the Bronx.
Or - as Yonah Freemark of thetransportpolitic reasoned: it could also be extended West along 125 St to connect the 1,2,3,4,5,6,A,B,C, and D lines (sorely connected uptown). Currently, you would have to either transfer before leaving the Bronx, or go all the way to Midtown, or get out and use your free transfer to the crosstown buses.
http://thetransportpolitic.com/2008/...way-rethink-1/
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Old July 25th, 2009, 06:14 AM   #1003
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Light rail is a good idea in my opinion. I can see it being very popular.
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Old July 25th, 2009, 06:52 AM   #1004
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So policies that brought a country out of debt and into a surplus during a recession, improving the quality of life, and cut taxes whilst making money are failures? Yes her social policies sucked and the poll tax was a disaster, but overall I dare you to come up with someone as good as she was nowadays. Thatcher had guts and was one hell of a PM, and this is coming from a Lib Dem.
Quality of life improved? HA!! Thatcher was a privatization *****, a female Ronald Reagan who never saw a deregulation or tax cut she didn't like- the EXACT policies that allowed banks to combine and merge and make up new ways of making a quick buck whilst jeopardizing the entire financial system in the process.

Her smug arrogance certainly did not endear herself to many. Not to mention her pigheaded invasion of the Falkland Islands meant to revive her delusions of British Empire. She set back the causes of self-determination and social progress for YEARS.

Thatcher had no concern for human rights and eagerly endorsed the Reagan Doctrine of violently undermining democratically elected leftist governments.
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Old July 25th, 2009, 06:57 AM   #1005
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I guess I was a little too pessimistic, especially with this recent estimate. All I'm saying is that BRT could still serve to reduce congestion and do it at a lower price...again, not as efficient, but if it's going to take another 30 years to see the SAS complete, I'd rather have BRT.

]
The SAS is meant to relieve the congestion of existing bus and subway lines, in addition to reducing traffic on Second Avenue itself. How the hell is eliminating two lanes at a minimum on a busy street for BRT or light rail going to improve congestion?

Light rail or BRT won't work in Manhattan because the street traffic is far too high. Subway and only subway will work there unless you close off the entire street to automobile traffic.

BRT and LRT are not compatible with the existing subway system, meaning a line on 2nd Avenue would have much lower ridership and defeat the purpose addressing the overcrowding in the first place!
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Old July 25th, 2009, 08:40 PM   #1006
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Bah, wait until Bloomberg gets to Second Avenue and shuts down to lanes for bike lanes and wider sidewalks. It's only a matter of time.

Of course, light rail is a last resort option.
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Old July 25th, 2009, 09:58 PM   #1007
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So policies that brought a country out of debt and into a surplus during a recession, improving the quality of life, and cut taxes whilst making money are failures? Yes her social policies sucked and the poll tax was a disaster, but overall I dare you to come up with someone as good as she was nowadays. Thatcher had guts and was one hell of a PM, and this is coming from a Lib Dem.
"Cut taxes whilst making money." Uh?

You must've meant cutting taxes for the rich so that THEY could make more money, correct?
Same as Reagan in America. Give the capitalists free rein & let them do as they please. And today we're suffering the consecuences of such irresponsible policies.
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Old July 27th, 2009, 09:03 PM   #1008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
The SAS is meant to relieve the congestion of existing bus and subway lines, in addition to reducing traffic on Second Avenue itself. How the hell is eliminating two lanes at a minimum on a busy street for BRT or light rail going to improve congestion?

Light rail or BRT won't work in Manhattan because the street traffic is far too high. Subway and only subway will work there unless you close off the entire street to automobile traffic.

BRT and LRT are not compatible with the existing subway system, meaning a line on 2nd Avenue would have much lower ridership and defeat the purpose addressing the overcrowding in the first place!
Question: Why do we have mass transit? To reduce traffic! Having alternate forms of transportation discourage people from driving, and thus less traffic. Related example: Think about the recent closure of parts of Times Square - drivers said that it would make traffic unbearable...but look at it now-traffic's moving smoother than before and it's safer for both pedestrians and drivers.

There is something called a free transfer btwn buses and the subway in NYC...
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Old July 27th, 2009, 10:09 PM   #1009
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Spot on.

I dislike it when people cite high levels of traffic down a road as an example why we shouldn't close down lanes.
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Old July 29th, 2009, 07:02 PM   #1010
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Yes - cities should be for the people, not cars.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 02:07 AM   #1011
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Spot on.

I dislike it when people cite high levels of traffic down a road as an example why we shouldn't close down lanes.
It's true, after London started implementing congestion pricing, traffic in the area dropped 10-30%.

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Yes - cities should be for the people, not cars.
This might be an interesting site to subscribe to: http://streetsblog.org (I use Google Reader BTW)
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Old July 30th, 2009, 02:41 AM   #1012
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I LOVE that site. :P

Ah, it seems all three of us have struck a mutual point. To people and not cars!
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Old July 30th, 2009, 07:41 AM   #1013
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"Cut taxes whilst making money." Uh?

You must've meant cutting taxes for the rich so that THEY could make more money, correct?
Same as Reagan in America. Give the capitalists free rein & let them do as they please. And today we're suffering the consecuences of such irresponsible policies.
Today's financial mess is a result of the repeal of a provision in the Glass-Steagall Act known as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, an American act; it doesn't have to do with Thatcher.
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Old July 30th, 2009, 06:47 PM   #1014
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MTA: Revenue dropping, but no 2010 hikes planned
29 July 2009

NEW YORK (AP) - The recession is taking a growing toll on the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, despite a nearly $2.3 billion state bailout, but the nation's biggest mass-transit system said Wednesday that it still expects to get through 2010 without raising fares or cutting service.

The MTA said the bailout, cost-cutting and proceeds from recent fare and toll hikes will offset drops in tax revenue and ridership.

"The budget is balanced on the head of pin for the next few years, and if the wind doesn't blow too hard, we'll probably make it through," MTA board Chairman H. Dale Hemmerdinger said as the agency released its $11.9 billion 2010 operating budget proposal.

The $2.26 billion bailout, which raised payroll and other taxes in 12 metropolitan counties, has improved the MTA's fortunes substantially since the agency's last financial snapshot in February. Passed in the spring, it staved off major service reductions and slashed this year's fare and toll increase from 23 percent to 10 percent.

Those steps closed a projected deficit, though the MTA says its revenues continue to ebb.

Tax income from real estate sales is expected to fall this year by more than 50 percent from last year's total -- a projection that has worsened significantly in just the last five months. Projected fare and toll collections also are dropping, with ridership off more than 3 percent since last year.

Meanwhile, the MTA faces rising expenses for pensions and paratransit, or disabled-accessible transportation, chief operating officer Gary Dellaverson said.

The agency has been trimming spending, in part by planning to eliminate about 360 maintenance, painting and management jobs in city buses and subways.

Those cuts, expected to save $37.7 million, are to be accomplished through attrition and reassignments, not layoffs. Still, they drew condemnation from the subway and bus workers' union, which called the plan a stealth service cut and said riders would face dirtier trains and buses.

"When Albany saved the MTA from its Doomsday budget earlier this year, the MTA promised Albany and straphangers that it would maintain current service as is," Transport Workers Union of America Local 100 said in a statement Wednesday. "With this move, they have reneged on that promise."

The union and agency are in arbitration after contract negotiations stalled in January.

The MTA expects revenue and ridership to start ticking up next year. With a 7.5 percent fare increase planned in 2011 and 2013, the agency isn't projecting deficits for the next three years. But the agency acknowledges that a worse-than-expected economy, volatile energy prices and other factors could derail their plan.

While officials' commitment to keep fares steady next year is heartening, "the bad news is that their finances beyond 2010 are very uncertain," said Gene Russianoff of the New York Public Interest Research Group's Straphangers Campaign, a rider advocacy group.

The 2010 operating budget won't go to a vote until December. An updated capital spending plan for big-ticket items is yet to come.

The MTA's transit network carries more than 8 million riders on an average day, while more than 800,000 vehicles use its bridges and tunnels.
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Old July 31st, 2009, 07:21 PM   #1015
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Today's financial mess is a result of the repeal of a provision in the Glass-Steagall Act known as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, an American act; it doesn't have to do with Thatcher.
Exactly. A whole financial mess happened solely because of the repeal of a provision in the Glass-Steagall Act. And World War I happened solely because a minor European aristocrat was assassinated in Sarajevo.
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Old August 1st, 2009, 01:27 AM   #1016
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Exactly. A whole financial mess happened solely because of the repeal of a provision in the Glass-Steagall Act. And World War I happened solely because a minor European aristocrat was assassinated in Sarajevo.
Yep. It wasn't just one neoliberal who brought everything crashing down, it was the whole corrupt lot of them.

(BTW, neoliberal means supply-sider/Thatcherite/Reaganite/corporate conservative in the US and UK)
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Old August 1st, 2009, 06:34 AM   #1017
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NYC - The Second Ave Subway (SAS) project

94th street

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Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:14 AM   #1018
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Beautiful!
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 07:45 AM   #1019
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Hmm.. it seems that they don't even fill the tunnel up after its completion, do they? Is it common for NY?
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Old August 3rd, 2009, 10:43 PM   #1020
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Hmm.. it seems that they don't even fill the tunnel up after its completion, do they? Is it common for NY?
once it is done - they will. so far they are working in it, so it is a bit premature.
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