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Old July 1st, 2011, 05:50 AM   #1241
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Old July 1st, 2011, 05:51 AM   #1242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Some trains are different lengths and the doors are different , so it wouldn't work at all.
You can solve that with either panel doors (opening vertically) or 3-layered movable PSDs that accommodate many different train configurations. But that starts being really expensive.
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Old July 1st, 2011, 05:24 PM   #1243
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Quote:
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I agree that the Queens Boulevard Line works incredibly well, but remember that part of this is that the express tracks actually diverge between Queens Plaza and Jackson Heights so as to shorten the express track length by around a third, almost halving the total trip time via express. Also is that the IND was designed more as a commuting system rather than the IRT and BMT's view of the subway as a passenger distribution system (ie local lines tend to stay within Manhattan and the Bronx while express lines operate as locals further out; while this pattern does exist on the IND it's less prevalent). Take the E for example, it runs express on Queens Boulevard and then local underneath Eighth Avenue, meaning that passengers don't have to transfer. In essence, by reducing station stops not only in Queens but also in Manhattan, passengers are given a more "direct" trip than they would on the IRT or BMT..
I think you mean "shorten the express track length by around a third of a mile", or an effect of ~30 seconds on travel time.
I don't think I'd argue that the IND was more of a commuter-type system vis-a-vis the older lines, but that their philosophy on service was a little different: instead of merging two lines at one ROW and using one as express and the other local, the IND tried to create lines with local and express service everywhere - sounds like the ideal realization of the local-express concept. (Of course, they had to ruin it, IMO, with the degree of interlining that was designed). Perhaps I've just argued for your point, but the way I see it, IND construction still fits more the pattern of rapid-transit service than S-Bahn or pure commuter rail service because their infrastructure, sans the additions in the post-unification days, allows for nearly uniform capacity even at the branch ends, something that can't be said of more commuter-type service (or even of the subway with contemporary service patterns)

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Thats to expensive , and the MTA probably won't do that in my lifetime....they expand the system twice over ....but never add Platform Screen doors.... Some trains are different lengths and the doors are different , so it wouldn't work at all.
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You can solve that with either panel doors (opening vertically) or 3-layered movable PSDs that accommodate many different train configurations. But that starts being really expensive.
This is part of the MTA's reasoning to just purchase 60 foot B-Division cars in the future: keep the door pattern consistent. It'll be quite some time before the MTA begins installing platform doors system-wide, so the subway fleet should be of uniform design by that time and the engineering considerations for said doors should be at their more basic.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 10:54 PM   #1244
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but the noise issue mostly applies to the older cars.....which are louder. Honestly theres not much you can do for the station noise.
I disagree about mitigating the noise. Might the operating authority have any plan when its new cars come to age to noisy strata?
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Old July 4th, 2011, 04:45 PM   #1245
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That station is not the loudest , 14th Street Union SQ , and Grand Central are the 2 worst for noise. Some of the tunnels and curves are bad aswell , but the noise issue mostly applies to the older cars.....which are louder. Honestly theres not much you can do for the station noise.
Is the station noise really that bad on the ears?
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:47 PM   #1246
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I'd at least bet it be bad for dynamic conversations down in them (all those noisy interruptions)...besides, it's bad for folks whose hearing's compromised.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 06:35 AM   #1247
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The MTA really needs to start looking at constructing new lines around the other 4 boroughs in the the city. The old planning commissions plan of having everything centered around Manhantten worked and the subway system does a good job of servicing the area, but now the focus needs to be on how Brooklyn and Harlem, and Queens can move in and about themselves.
Just a thought to try and provoke some conversation.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 04:43 PM   #1248
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Harlem belongs to Manhattan and is well served imo
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Old July 8th, 2011, 05:34 PM   #1249
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Maybe he wanted to say Bronx
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Old July 9th, 2011, 05:19 AM   #1250
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I do think other Boroughs need more lines not necessarily more subway lines but more elevated lines if it can be done at a cheaper price.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 06:58 AM   #1251
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I am all for expanding the subway but before they sink large quantities of money into expanding the system, they need to replace/expand the aging highway/parkway infrastructure first... which I feel would benefit the boroughs a lot more than new rapid transit lines.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:10 AM   #1252
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I am all for expanding the subway but before they sink large quantities of money into expanding the system, they need to replace/expand the aging highway/parkway infrastructure first... which I feel would benefit the boroughs a lot more than new rapid transit lines.
No a better outer borough Rapid Transit system would benefit the ppl more then better highways...theres not much you can do to the highway system.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:13 AM   #1253
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No a better outer borough Rapid Transit system would benefit the ppl more then better highways...theres not much you can do to the highway system.
At least you need to keep the structure in a good state of repair.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:18 AM   #1254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dachacon View Post
The MTA really needs to start looking at constructing new lines around the other 4 boroughs in the the city. The old planning commissions plan of having everything centered around Manhantten worked and the subway system does a good job of servicing the area, but now the focus needs to be on how Brooklyn and Harlem, and Queens can move in and about themselves.
Just a thought to try and provoke some conversation.
Had the Great Depression not crushed its aspirations, the IND would have doubled overall route milage in Queens as well as create new trunk lines in Manhattan. Alas it never happened, but some of the preparations for future extensions are present throughout the B Division.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:20 AM   #1255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis

No a better outer borough Rapid Transit system would benefit the ppl more then better highways...theres not much you can do to the highway system.
Expanding the Belt Parkway is something they can feasibly do, and expanding that road would greatly improve the quality of life for the residents of Brooklyn and Queens a lot more than building new subway lines. Where would these new lines go even? Why do you feel they will be needed more than expanding roads? Every Borough aside from Staten Island has decent subway coverage with bus routes providing supplement service.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:26 AM   #1256
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Expanding the Belt Parkway is something they can feasibly do, and expanding that road would greatly improve the quality of life for the residents of Brooklyn and Queens a lot more than building new subway lines. Where would these new lines go even? Why do you feel they will be needed more than expanding roads? Every Borough aside from Staten Island has decent subway coverage with bus routes providing supplement service.
You can expand the belt parkway , there is no more room , same with all the Urban Jersey Highways and NYC. And NIMBYs would slow any attempted at doing that.... They need to restore Train stations on the LIRR and expand that network to fill in the many gaps in the Subway system....and the restoring the stations is cheaper.... What would expanding Highways do? Most people in Urban Jersey and NYC use transit....it would do very little...
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:27 AM   #1257
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At least you need to keep the structure in a good state of repair.
There are plans to burial I-278 through Brooklyn but that's a decade away...
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Old July 9th, 2011, 07:31 AM   #1258
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Ok then, what new lines would you propose? And where?
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Old July 9th, 2011, 08:21 AM   #1259
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Ok then, what new lines would you propose? And where?
No New lines but restored stations , that would reduce the strain on the current subway system and local bus system , and fill the gaps in parts of Eastern Queens.... Metro North already plans to do this in the Bronx along the New Haven line extension and in Manhattan along the Hudson line extension. LIRR already has a small RER type system within NYC , some people have proposed expanding this...

Current / Future City Terminal zone , New stations are underlined

Long Island Railroad
Atlantic Branch
Atlantic Terminal
Nostrand Avenue
East New York
Jamaica
Linden Boulevard
Locust Manor
Laurelton
Rosedale
Valley Stream


Montauk Branch
Long Island City
Maspeth
Fresh Pond
Glendale
Richmond Hill

Jamaica
St. Albans
Farmers Boulevard


Port Washington Branch
Penn station
Woodside
Elmhurst
Corona

Mets–Willets Point
Flushing Main Street
Murray Hill
Broadway
Auburndale
Bayside
Douglaston
Little Neck


Main line
Penn Station
Sunnyside
Woodside
Forest Hills
Kew Gardens
Jamaica
Hollis
Francis Lewis Boulevard
Queens Village


JFK Airtrain Connection
Jamaica
Liberty Ave
Linden boulevard
Rockaway Boulevard

Lefferts Boulevard
Howard Beach


City Ring Railway - could be a Metro aswell....and use abandoned Freight tracks in Queens , Brooklyn , SI and NJ
Grand Central
Sunnyside

Woodside
Middle Village
Ridgewood
East New York
Linden Boulevard
Remsen Ave
East Flatbush
Flatbush Ave
Ocean Parkway
Fort Hamilton Parkway
St. George Station
Botanical Gardens / SI
Bayonne

Midtown Elizabeth
Cranford


Metro North

Hudson line - Penn Station Extension
Penn Station
West 62nd Street
West 125th Street
Dyckman St

Riverdale
Yonkers


New Haven line - Penn Station Extension
Penn Station
Sunnyside
Hunts Point
Parkchester
Co-Op City

New Rochelle
Harrison
Stamford
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Old July 10th, 2011, 04:23 PM   #1260
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The last thing the Greater NYC metro area needs to do is cater to the automobile. Robert Moses almost destroyed NYC with his highway building orgy. Only recently has the city population stabilized and begun to increase again.

NYC is a mass transit mecca. It is far too large to rely on the automobile as the primary transportation choice. There would either be 30 lane freeways or constant gridlock.

Basic rehabilitation of roads is fine, but any transportation expansion must be rail based- it is the only form that can has the capacity to move enough people and not consume vast amounts of precious space (like a freeway would).
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