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Old August 15th, 2011, 04:38 AM   #1281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Geez, you are cross-threading discussions.

My implication is that lower and midtown Manhattan of the time the subway lines were built was a very unhealthy place. 8,4m˛ of residential built-up space/resident is less than half of that of an average students living in an university dorm. Anything with less than 15m˛/inhabitant is very crowded and anything below 10m˛/inhabitant, unsanitary. Today, figures in Manhattan are on the 22m˛/inhabitant, crowded, but not outright dangerous in average - e.g. manageable.

These conditions, though, created conditions for profitable (at the time) subway systems, elevated railways etc, which help explain why, even for today standards, the number or tunnels and stations in Manhattan, below 86th street, is so high compared to any other city, with plenty of express tracks, and also why there are so many Hudson crossings. In 1900, you already had 1,9 million people living in cramped around subway lines, so even the modest fares and lackluster safety procedures of the time were not deterrents to the success of the system!

Heavy rail transit systems of early 20th century just didn't pop up in New York and similar cities. They were a by-product of demographic and economic conditions of the time.

As I said, I don't know of other metro area which has a comprehensive express+local subway network like NYC.
First, I'm answering your last paragraph: none. And that's no system in the world, not even Tokyo.

But secondly, ridership is actually at record numbers now, in part thanks to the Unlimited Metro Card. Profitability for the subways was a result of a lack of post-war inflation (occurring at the same time as unification), low labour costs, minimal safety standards, and a willingness to undertake what were considered painful, but necessary, infrastructure overhauls.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 07:07 AM   #1282
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Nyc subways are far too dirty..
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Old August 15th, 2011, 08:15 AM   #1283
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I just came back from NYC 5 days ago. The subway was pretty good but...far too dirty...not very timely.

However on one of my trips I rode the new Kawasaki train which was very clean and modern. Once the old Kawasaki's are replaced with the new stock NYC's subway will be pretty nice...though hopefully they can make it more timely and clean up the stations (alot of trash on the rails).

I also just learned NYC will get an even newer Kawasaki train the R188:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R188_(N...ity_Subway_car)

They will be delivered in 2013.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 08:55 AM   #1284
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Its dirty partially because its old. And others because people spit gums on the platform and draw graffitis on the wall.

Out of MTAs control.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #1285
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Originally Posted by NihonKitty View Post
I just came back from NYC 5 days ago. The subway was pretty good but...far too dirty...not very timely.

However on one of my trips I rode the new Kawasaki train which was very clean and modern. Once the old Kawasaki's are replaced with the new stock NYC's subway will be pretty nice...though hopefully they can make it more timely and clean up the stations (alot of trash on the rails).

I also just learned NYC will get an even newer Kawasaki train the R188:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R188_(N...ity_Subway_car)

They will be delivered in 2013.
If you want clean then your going to have to ride Boston , New Jersey , Philadelphia or DC's Subways.... The NYC subway will never be as clean as other cities or timely , most New Yorkers could care less about the trash.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 02:36 PM   #1286
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Old August 15th, 2011, 07:52 PM   #1287
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Its dirty partially because its old. And others because people spit gums on the platform and draw graffitis on the wall.

Out of MTAs control.
Actually I am talking about the trash not just graffiti. I saw alot of wrappers, papers and even bottles on some of the tracks (not all the tracks were like this though some had no trash at all). I wonder if that is even safe.

Quote:
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If you want clean then your going to have to ride Boston , New Jersey , Philadelphia or DC's Subways.... The NYC subway will never be as clean as other cities or timely , most New Yorkers could care less about the trash.
Yep I also went to Boston and I love their system. Their card payment system also seems more advanced as well. Why will it never be as timely? There are many big cities around the world that are much more timely...and clean. Many "cleaning education" campaigns across the country have been pretty succesful.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 10:15 PM   #1288
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Its safe enough for trains to run.

Again, out of MTA's control. People are lazy slobs.

Boston metro is pretty dirty too. And dont even tell me about Philly, they smell like piss in every stations thats underground.
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Old August 15th, 2011, 10:24 PM   #1289
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Its safe enough for trains to run.

Again, out of MTA's control. People are lazy slobs.

Boston metro is pretty dirty too. And dont even tell me about Philly, they smell like piss in every stations thats underground.
Boston is not dirty , and Philly is actually pretty clean considering the neighborhoods. Boston is ahead of NYC in terms of Fare Collection and Philly will be in 2 years....
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Old August 15th, 2011, 10:32 PM   #1290
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Philly still has a freaking token booth. Not exactly breaking modern technology.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:07 AM   #1291
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Philly still has a freaking token booth. Not exactly breaking modern technology.
There 2 years away from a Full Fare card system,....and there system is still cleaner then NYC....
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:13 AM   #1292
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No it isnt, it smells like piss.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:26 AM   #1293
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No it isnt, it smells like piss.
Well so does NYC , but most of there stations are clean...
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Old August 16th, 2011, 12:28 AM   #1294
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Not really, theres a lot of trash but it doesnt smell like urine. SEPTA is dirty too.
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Old August 16th, 2011, 01:00 AM   #1295
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Not really, theres a lot of trash but it doesnt smell like urine. SEPTA is dirty too.
Its not as dirty as NYC and there upgrading all the stations...
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Old August 16th, 2011, 05:48 AM   #1296
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When I was in Manhattan in 2009 I took the subway couple times (and drove the rest btw). South Ferry Station was looking brand new, all modern with escalators, shinny handrails where applicable, electronic announcement panels etc.

81st St. station was also nice.

Others, like that big hub near Times Square, looked dirty.

Overall, I didn't like the use of incandescent bulbs and hanging lamps with not hidden wiring to light public areas.

I had visited NYC before, without driver's license/car, and that time I used much more the subway as the primary mean of transportation. The other one, I used it only one day before we got a car to travel around. I couldn't find much difference between my first and second visit, but I do remember on my last visit I've ridden a very modern train (either heavily refurbished or brand new, most likely brand new) on the line to South Ferry station (new train to new station, quite a good impression on that).

Roosevelt Island station is also interesting. Is it the deepest of the system?
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Old August 16th, 2011, 06:11 AM   #1297
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I had visited NYC before, without driver's license/car, and that time I used much more the subway as the primary mean of transportation. The other one, I used it only one day before we got a car to travel around. I couldn't find much difference between my first and second visit, but I do remember on my last visit I've ridden a very modern train (either heavily refurbished or brand new, most likely brand new) on the line to South Ferry station (new train to new station, quite a good impression on that).
When did you go? It probably was one of the new R160s....
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Old August 16th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #1298
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@Suburbanist: Roosevelt is the 3rd or 4th deepest in the system although it's actually the deepest measured from sea-level. 191 St and 181 St are both deeper when measured form station entrance to the platform - ~180 and ~120 ft, respectively - but the local topography is such that they're both shy of reaching sea-level. I don't know the depth of the 1 train platform at 168 St, but it should be at about the same depth as 181 St. Roosevelt's platforms, by comparison, rest 100 ft below its near sea-level entrance.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 07:22 PM   #1299
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Lifesaver: Veteran subway clerk cuts power as train nears death-wisher



A quick-thinking token booth clerk saved a suicidal man's life early Friday when he cut the power in a tunnel as a man walked toward an oncoming train.

Veteran clerk Marty Goodman sprung into action at the 86th St. station at Central Park around 5:40 a.m. when he heard a man yelling after he jumped off a subway platform.

When the man ignored his pleas over a station loudspeaker, Goodman dialed for emergency help, then bolted from his booth to try to persuade the bloodied man to come back onto the platform.

"He said, 'Leave me alone. Don't come near me,'" Goodman said.

Goodman, 62, said he then heard an announcement that an uptown train was but one station away. "I said, 'Oh, my God. I have to cut the power,'" he said.

Goodman said he raced to cut the power after finding a shutoff in the tunnel - while the emotionally disturbed man walked in another direction.

"It looks like Mr. Goodman did everything he was supposed to do in terms of activating the alarm," said Kevin Ortiz, an MTA spokesman.

Cops and FDNY workers rushed into the station to fetch the man, whose identity was not released. An FDNY spokesman said he was taken to St. Luke's Hospital.

"Hallelujah, the guy was okay," Goodman said. "I felt very good."
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...#ixzz1Vb6Tmo8V
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Old August 24th, 2011, 08:33 PM   #1300
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