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Old September 4th, 2011, 09:19 PM   #1321
Christius Alerius
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Toss up between the NY subway and London Underground as to which is my favourite..
I noticed a few comments in the thread about people not liking old, dirty stations, i think they give the subway atmosphere!
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Old September 4th, 2011, 10:42 PM   #1322
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Paris...stations virtually everywhere there.
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Old September 4th, 2011, 10:52 PM   #1323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christius Alerius View Post
I noticed a few comments in the thread about people not liking old, dirty stations, i think they give the subway atmosphere!
I think transportation infrastructure meant to be primarily transport (e.g., not a heritage streetcar or leisure river cruise boat) should be devoid of anything that is old, or left there just because it had always been there. It's like hospitals: you don't see a hospital keeping old wooden plastered operation rooms just because they were charming (in 1880?): they are sanitized and modernized whenever possible.

I find odd, borderline strange to think that "dirty stations" are good in any subway system. It contradicts 200 years or progressively cleaner urban environment that first got rid of animal excrement from streets and now is getting rid of asbestos and other stuff.

NYC subway carries a lot of people, and should do so without making people stomp into sandwich leftovers, cigarette butts, touching greasy benches or having so smell the dirt of underground.
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Old September 4th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #1324
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Old September 5th, 2011, 02:02 AM   #1325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think transportation infrastructure meant to be primarily transport (e.g., not a heritage streetcar or leisure river cruise boat) should be devoid of anything that is old, or left there just because it had always been there. It's like hospitals: you don't see a hospital keeping old wooden plastered operation rooms just because they were charming (in 1880?): they are sanitized and modernized whenever possible.

I find odd, borderline strange to think that "dirty stations" are good in any subway system. It contradicts 200 years or progressively cleaner urban environment that first got rid of animal excrement from streets and now is getting rid of asbestos and other stuff.

NYC subway carries a lot of people, and should do so without making people stomp into sandwich leftovers, cigarette butts, touching greasy benches or having so smell the dirt of underground.
There is a difference between unhealthily dirty stations, and stations which have a more rough charm about them. The stations on the NYC Subway are the latter. Your comparison with hospitals is void; people don't go on the subway to heal after contracting a disease... It's a bit like street graffiti; many people see it as an eyesore whereas many see it as contributing to the character of an urban environment.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 05:26 AM   #1326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
There is a difference between unhealthily dirty stations, and stations which have a more rough charm about them. The stations on the NYC Subway are the latter. Your comparison with hospitals is void; people don't go on the subway to heal after contracting a disease... It's a bit like street graffiti; many people see it as an eyesore whereas many see it as contributing to the character of an urban environment.
Peeling paint, leaky roofs, and garbage flying = unsanitized and dirty, not an "Old World" charm.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 09:22 AM   #1327
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Time for an audit of the authority's permissible precautionary measures




Simply curious of how passengers must've been shooed away, considering how the Toronto subway coppers panicked --on an empty platform (only 4 passengers)-- back on 911
better safe than sorry.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #1328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Peeling paint, leaky roofs, and garbage flying = unsanitized and dirty, not an "Old World" charm.
I agree. The NYC subway is an important milestone in history for a number of reasons, but it's not the Great Pyramids or the Great Wall of China. Old structures like that can be left alone to age and have "old world" charm because they don't have to serve modern society. It's a hundred years old, but the subway still serves as the primary means of getting around NYC, and should be treated as such.
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Old September 5th, 2011, 04:50 PM   #1329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think transportation infrastructure meant to be primarily transport (e.g., not a heritage streetcar or leisure river cruise boat) should be devoid of anything that is old...
I just want some clarification: when you say anything old, does that mean you also support the earlier demolition of the original New York Penn Station? It's large dimensions and bombastic appearance certainly went well beyond the needs of the trains...
In regards to other arguments, old and dirty and not synonymous. Sure, the old subway stations of New York would always look crude - exposed I-beams, low ceilings, and simple box-like shapes - but transit needn't be an architectural statement to be successful. It would be nice if everything could look like the Bilbao metro or something, but as long as it adequately serves the population, it's doing its job. That's certainly not to excuse the refuse issue in the subway, but in good nick it would cease to be gross and just old (if rather crude).
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Old September 5th, 2011, 10:30 PM   #1330
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Just to clarify people I wasn't saying litter was good, by old and dirty I meant exposed beams, bare walls and graffiti, things like that, not dangerous things.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 02:35 AM   #1331
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Seems i'm the only one that got that.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 12:16 AM   #1332
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source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphot...in/photostream
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MTA Chairman Jay H. Walder and elected officials re-opened the southbound platform of the Cortlandt St R subway station on Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2011. More info here: bit.ly/pO2mpm Left to right (front row): NYS Senator Daniel Squadron; Congressman Jerrold Nadler; MTA Chairman Jay H. Walder; NYS Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver; and NYC Council Member Margaret Chin. Photo by Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 04:59 PM   #1333
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New York subway station are ogly and claustrofobic. I don´t uderstand why the richiest city on hearth doesn´t invest to up today its subway sistem.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 06:15 PM   #1334
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It's all because States are too car-centric. No one (or still too few) cares about public transportation.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 07:08 PM   #1335
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better safe than sorry.
About their (Toronto's) behaviour Neither nothing safe about it nor any thing about it to be sorry over
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Old September 7th, 2011, 08:37 PM   #1336
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New York subway station are ogly and claustrofobic. I don´t uderstand why the richiest city on hearth doesn´t invest to up today its subway sistem.
Spending on public utilities, spaces, and facilities (particularly public transit) in the U.S. is usually regarded as wasteful by a large segment of the voting population, especially when the spending goes to the cosmetic aspects of these utilities. If NYC made their subway stations look like the ones you'll find in the "world's most beautiful metro stations" photo threads, the first question on most people's minds (outside of NYC) would be why the money wasn't spent on tax breaks for big business, or on a new highway in the middle of Oklahoma.

The U.S. is very car-centric as Fabulaz pointed out, and too few people directly benefit from public transit currently enough for it to matter (which leads to reduced funded and shrinking service and service coverage... a vicious cycle). If we funded our public transit companies as well as we fund our military contractors, New York's stations would probably look as nice as Shanghai's.

In the case of NYC, the stations COULD look nicer, but I don't see how they can be made "less claustrophobic". The internal size and configuration of the stations is limited by their original design.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 08:42 PM   #1337
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the first question ... would be why the money wasn't spent on tax breaks for big business
Are you a ... ... ... martian
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Old September 7th, 2011, 09:43 PM   #1338
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Umm... to the partisan folks above... how bout the system is just old and in the most crowded city in the country?

I'll be the first to admit that the US's transportation spending is way out of whack, but we could be throwing all that money at transit systems, and I'm pretty sure the NYC subway would still look old and cramped...
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Old September 7th, 2011, 10:39 PM   #1339
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It's not only old and uggly - it's just dirty. First what should be done is: "just clean that thing!" It's an awesome system actually and i love it. It's probably one among very few in States that is really used by citizens, too. This means - the money wouldnt be wasted.
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Old September 7th, 2011, 10:45 PM   #1340
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Umm... to the partisan folks above... how bout the system is just old and in the most crowded city in the country?

I'll be the first to admit that the US's transportation spending is way out of whack, but we could be throwing all that money at transit systems, and I'm pretty sure the NYC subway would still look old and cramped...
I made a bad joke about some of the anti-public transit lunacy we sometimes see in the U.S. (and the funding thereof). I apologize for that one.

Yeah, the NYC subway's old and crowded. But it doesn't need to look as bad as it does. Actually, I don't think just throwing money at the system is the way to go (though funding may be part of the issue). NYC should study other similarly large mass transit systems (Paris, Moscow, Tokyo) with better reputations and reform the MTA along those lines. Hopefully those reforms would translate into better maintained and cleaner stations.

The bottom line is the NYC stations 'are what they are' from a spatial organization standpoint, and will never be as roomy as more modern subway stations like those of Washington D.C. or Shanghai, or Paris's RER.
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