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Old November 30th, 2005, 03:50 AM   #121
Bertez
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Does Bombardier make these trains??
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Old November 30th, 2005, 03:54 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWEST
*read's post* I stand by my statement. How is this news? These cars were out for like 6-8 month now or maybe even more.
The R160s haven't even gone into service yet. They wont even be done with testing for another few months. The cars on the L are the R143, and this post clearly outlines the R160's improvements compared to the R143, spefically focusing on the FIND display systems which are not in any cars yet, and won't be for at least another year.
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Old November 30th, 2005, 04:00 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertez
Does Bombardier make these trains??
Bombardier has manufactured cars for the NYC subway for years. Their last cars though were the R142s, with the last being delievered in 2003. All of the more recent cars have been built by Kawasaki.

The new R160s are split between Kawasaki (the current batch) and Alstom. The Alstom cars, if I remember correctly, are being built in Brazil, and have had many manufacturing defects. Some cars were accidentaly damaged by a large crane in the factory. When their first batch of cars underwent prelimeneray testing before even leaving the plant, there were numerous defects, including serious water leaks. The MTA wants to cancel their contract with Alstom.
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Old November 30th, 2005, 05:15 AM   #124
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asohn, thanks for the info
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Old November 30th, 2005, 05:30 AM   #125
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Bloody hell, I just seen it on the 6 oclock news and they said they were being put to use in 2006. So it's a prototype? But I see people riding them.
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Old November 30th, 2005, 06:22 AM   #126
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^ It was a demenstration for the press/public
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Old November 30th, 2005, 06:33 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KWEST
*read's post* I stand by my statement. How is this news? These cars were out for like 6-8 month now or maybe even more.
KWEST -
Here's an article about the new subway cars that will be appearing in tomorrow's New York Times. Perhaps you may want to reconsider your previous comments.


New York Times
November 30, 2005
New Subway Cars Promise All Kinds of Information

By SEWELL CHAN
Nicholas Malave, a senior at Pacific High School in Brooklyn, entered a subway car yesterday and let out a cry of delight. This is not something he normally does during his regular trips on the A and J lines.

But those older cars lack what the new R160 subway car has: a Flexible Information and Notice Display, or FIND, with a liquid crystal display screen like the ones in television or computer monitors. The FIND panel also will have light-emitting diodes that will constantly update information about the train's progress.

After each stop, the display will change to show the next 10 stops, along with stops farther along the line. The video screen can be used to show the route symbol (like the letter "N" or "Q") or advertising.

Mr. Malave was one of dozens of curious riders who attended an "open house" sponsored yesterday afternoon by New York City Transit to show off and receive feedback on a five-car test train, a prototype of the R160, the newest generation of subway cars.

Next summer, the test train will be put in use so that engineers and mechanics can conduct technical tests, see how the cars hold up and iron out any problems before the rest of the order - a $952 million contract for 660 cars, awarded in October 2002 - is completed by a joint venture of Kawasaki Rail Car and Alstom Transport.

The cars will be delivered starting in 2007. Although the agency has not decided yet, the new cars may be used on the N or Q lines, which currently use some of the oldest cars in the system.

The test train yesterday was fully functioning, but it was not available to ordinary riders trying to get home. It was parked for five hours at the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station in Downtown Brooklyn.

The R160 is 60 feet long and 85,200 pounds when empty. In comes in two versions: one with a train operator's cab at the end, which can seat 42, and one without the cab, which can seat 44. The R160 is almost identical to the R143, which has been in use since 2003 on the L line, except for the new display system.

Riders yesterday, told to focus on the FIND panel, were asked questions like, "Do you feel reassured that the train is going to your station?" and "How easy or hard is it to read the words and letters on the sign?"

But riders seemed to be paying less attention to the sign than the rest of the car itself. Some of them said they did not regularly take the Nos. 2, 4, 5 and 6 lines (which use R142 cars, similar in design to the R143) or the L line and so were not familiar with the latest design.

Asked to compare the new car with the F train that she normally rides, Mara Romero, 72, a retired nurse's aide from Gravesend, Brooklyn, said, "This is three times more advanced!" Jared M. Skolnick, 34, an Internet marketer, said he admired the bright fluorescent lights, since he often took photographs in the subway.

James V. Sears, the agency's senior director of marketing research, said the results of the surveys - along with comments from focus groups convened in 2003 - could be incorporated into the final design of the FIND panel.

Among the transit specialists who crowded the test car yesterday was Masamichi Udagawa of Antenna Design New York. He was partly responsible for the color of the seats on the R142 and future generations. Asked whether he missed the red, orange and yellow seats used in many cars built in the 1970's, he said: "They were good for disco, but not for everyday commuting."
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Old November 30th, 2005, 07:31 AM   #128
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Hooray for zero defect Japanese rolling stock!
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Old December 1st, 2005, 08:35 AM   #129
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Hell yeah! Perhaps they can also program the displays to alternate back and forth between English and other languages such as Spanish and French. In Japan, all the LCD and LED displays alternate back and forth between Japanese and English.
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Old December 2nd, 2005, 12:17 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail Claimore
Hell yeah! Perhaps they can also program the displays to alternate back and forth between English and other languages such as Spanish and French. In Japan, all the LCD and LED displays alternate back and forth between Japanese and English.
An English speaker cannot read Japanese. A French or Spanish speaker can read English. The station names, etc are language-independent really.
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Old December 2nd, 2005, 01:48 AM   #131
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Yea, I actually like the display screen, which means that these can be used on multiple lines, unlike the current R142 and R143, those are stuck permanently on a line until they replace the stripmaps. Lets just hope those people dont scratch on it...
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Old December 2nd, 2005, 04:55 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asohn
An English speaker cannot read Japanese. A French or Spanish speaker can read English. The station names, etc are language-independent really.
But the screens will be used for stuff besides station announcements and for general infomation purposes as well such as events or warnings. It's only an option that's perfectly exercisable with this new stuff, if they choose to do so.
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 07:04 AM   #133
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Saturday December 3, 7:24 AM
Judge OKs random police bag searches on NYC subway

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge ruled on Friday it was constitutional for police to randomly search riders' bags on the New York City subway to deter a terrorist attack.

U.S. District Judge Richard Berman ruled the searches were an effective and appropriate means to fight terrorism.

"The need for implementing counter-terrorism measures is indisputable, pressing, on-going and evolving," Berman wrote.

In a statement, Mayor Michael Bloomberg praised the ruling, calling bag searches a "reasonable precaution" that police would continue to take.

Random bag searches began on July 22 after a second set of bomb attacks on London's transit system.

The New York Civil Liberties Union sued the city and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly shortly afterward, calling the policy of searching thousands of riders a day without any suspicion of wrongdoing unconstitutional.

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibits searches without probable cause.

Police had argued random searches were a crucial deterrent to a possible attack.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 05:14 AM   #134
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What the Motorman Saw - an article about people being struck by trains in NYC

At the risk of sounding morbid, I found this article to be quite interesting. The article talks about the impact of such events (which the MTA refers to as a 12-9) on the lives of subway personnel. A union spokesman estimates that there are 1 to 2 12-9's every week. Certainly makes the case for building subway stations with platform screen doors.



What the Motorman Saw
New York Times
December 4, 2005

By JAKE MOONEY
IT is the dark fear of anyone who has gazed down at the subway tracks, leaned out from a platform to search the distance for a pair of headlights, or felt a sharp underground breeze kick up at the crescendoing rumble of train wheels. A trip and fall, or a loss of balance, or a sudden jolt or push from behind ... and then a plunge, to the damp, grimy floor between the glistening rails.

Half submerged in New York's collective unconscious, alongside dirty bombs and dark-alley robberies, is the nightmare of somehow winding up in the path of an oncoming train. It is a fear that lingers unmentioned, then rears up into the daylight at times like last Sunday. The next day, front pages across town shouted these chilling facts: Richie Molina, 19, was charged with pushing his friend onto the elevated No. 7 tracks at the 52nd Street station in Sunnyside, Queens.

The victim, killed by an oncoming train, was Edison Guzman, 22, a bakery worker from nearby Richmond Hill. But there was another victim, say people who know these matters all too well, one who rated little mention in the news accounts. This victim was the motorman, the train operator. He saw Mr. Guzman fall in front of him, the articles said. He tried to stop the 200 tons behind him, but he could not.

The fear of just such an event, haunting riders' minds, is there for train operators, too. And more often than most riders know, the fear becomes a reality. Dave Katzman, a spokesman for Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, said two other people were hit by trains that Sunday. And two days ago, a woman was struck by an F train at the East Broadway station in Chinatown.

As for the frequency of such events, Mr. Katzman said, "A ballpark figure might be one to two a week, with a larger number around the holidays."

Train operators haul their human cargo along the same lines day after day, week after week, watching for red and green signal lights and square numbered signs next to each platform, all the while scanning the tracks ahead of them, tracks they know by heart, for something or someone that does not belong.

"Imagine spending the whole day on that train," a motorman named William Martinez once said in a Bronx diner near the end of the D line, his route for several years. "It's an exercise in staying awake. I was telling somebody it's like watching the same movie 1,000 times, but having to watch for that one detail in it that's different every time."

But far worse than the boredom, the numbing sameness, is the jolt that can come out of nowhere, turning lives upside down in a split second.

For Mr. Martinez, it had come in Harlem in November 2002, when a woman standing with her husband on the platform at the 125th Street/St. Nicholas Avenue station abruptly started running toward the edge, then jumped. When he saw her legs flip up into the air before she disappeared under the train, he feared the worst, but somehow she survived. He got down on the tracks and helped lift her out from between the cars where she had ended up. Only later, in a meeting with two supervisors after he took his train out of service, did he feel tears on his face and realize that he could not stop shaking. Back at the control center, someone congratulated him: The delay in service was only 17 minutes.

The authorities did not release the names of the two-person crew on the train that struck Mr. Guzman last week, the train operator and conductor whose lives were changed forever. But based on the dozens of cases of people struck by subway trains each year - events known in transit parlance by the code 12-9 - it is easy to speculate on what their last week must have been like.

Minutes after the train grinds to a halt after a 12-9, it is the train operator's job to climb down, flashlight in hand, and inspect the tracks. The logic is that the operator is inevitably among the first people on the scene, and whoever is under the train could still be alive and either in need of help, bruised or bleeding, or inches from the perilous third rail.

Subway riders tend to think of death on the tracks as a matter of impact - a train striking a person, a quick, blunt force. In reality, what train crews often find is a scene of carnage, the result of a body being dragged under a train and left to the mercy of the hard rails and heavy machinery. These images, of crushed or severed heads, horribly twisted limbs, or the last throes of an agonizing death, are the ones that persist in operators' nightmares.

Stopping a train short at a speed of 30 miles an hour or faster, with steel wheels rolling on steel tracks worn smooth over the years, is next to impossible. But that fact does not ease the guilt that many train operators feel, the sense that somehow all the trauma could have been avoided. And often there is anger: Why did they pick my train?

DR. MATTHEW CLARKE knows these reactions well. He works for Central Medical Services of Westrock, an occupational therapy practice with several offices in New York that often treats train operators who have been involved in 12-9's. For just under two years, Dr. Clarke has been taking referrals from Local 100 and helping affected crew members to apply successfully for worker compensation, which in turn gets them additional time off for treatment. (New York City Transit, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority subsidiary that runs subways and city buses, is engaged in contract negotiations with the union and declined to comment for this article.)

Post-traumatic stress disorder from a 12-9 can last for months or even years, Dr. Clarke said, long after the debriefings and drug and alcohol tests following the accident are over.

"They're not sleeping, they're having nightmares; quite often they're having interpersonal relationship issues, because their spouses can't understand why it's taking them so long to get over it," he said. "It makes it harder when your family and friends don't understand why you're watching a movie and you break down crying - and you're a man, and the scene wasn't even that sad. But your emotions are so on edge."

Dr. Clarke's practice aims to gradually reintroduce affected workers to the subway system. At first, just being in a station and seeing a train go by can cause a panic attack. But in a process called desensitization, undertaken only after intensive psychotherapy, a therapist accompanies the patient first to a station, then onto the back or middle of a train, gradually moving in subsequent visits closer and closer to the front. The goal is to eventually spend a whole run looking out the train's front window.

At some point, most of these operators will go through retraining, return to work and resume carrying thousands of passengers a day. And like commuters on the platform in the days after a high-profile 12-9, they will do their best to block out the creeping fears.

"High school students think it's funny when a train is coming in, to try to fake jumping in front of a train," Dr. Clarke said. "So if a train operator puts a train into emergency for that, they're in trouble."

Still, erasing the past is impossible. "Among subway workers, among train operators and conductors, people that work on the tracks, the one incident during everybody's career that is life-altering is a 12-9," said Jimmy Willis, a former conductor and Transport Workers Union official. "After someone has a 12-9, those thoughts begin to crowd their awareness. There are people who are involved with a 12-9 who never get back on a train."

Mr. Willis, 51, worked for the transit system for 18 years. As a union representative, he rushed to the scenes of countless 12-9's, and he also coordinated the union's role in a peer-counseling program that it and New York City Transit had jointly conducted for several months after the Sept. 11 terror attack to allay on-the-job trauma.

But Mr. Willis, who now lives in Mesquite, Nev., and is a few signed papers and rubber stamps away from retirement, knows most about death on the subway tracks because of a night about 10 years ago, when he was a conductor on a Manhattan-bound R train pulling into the Union Street station in Park Slope, Brooklyn.

A man who Mr. Willis later learned had a serious physical illness stepped in front of his train that night, coming to rest behind a car that had passed over him. Mr. Willis did not see the impact firsthand - conductors are stationed at the middle of the train, where they make announcements, open and close the doors and ensure that no one is caught within them - but he was the one who called the line's control center to report what had happened. He was also the one who looked under the train with a flashlight when his motorman was too shaken.

Mr. Willis does not like to talk about exactly what he saw, but it was obvious to him that the man was not going to live. "He had some catastrophic injuries," he said. "His body was just broken."

WHAT stuck with Mr. Willis after that day was the sudden, wrenching trauma, and how train crews are usually unprepared for it. Police and firefighters are trained for violence and death, he said, and on some level expect it when they sign up for their jobs. For most subway workers, the harsh side of the job is not something they bargain for.

But then somebody jumps in front of a train, or is pushed, or gets sick and falls to the roadbed after drinking too much or missing breakfast. Most riders do not even notice, because subway workers have become so efficient at cleanup. First, trains are rerouted out of the area. Next, all the body parts are gathered. Finally, because the blood cannot be wiped up so easily, workers put down an absorbent layer of sand. If the scene is right, and the weather isn't too cold, the blood dries up. In time, the sand drifts away, carried off on the breezes that flow through the tunnels day and night.

But in the memories of those who were there, traces of blood remain. Even in Nevada, Mr. Willis still reads three New York newspapers a day on the Internet, and he notices whenever a 12-9 is disturbing enough to be reported. He thinks of the train crew.

"I put myself in that person's place," he said. "What is he or she thinking today?"

Maybe the crew member is thinking about what the person on the tracks was wearing, or some little move he or she made just before leaving the platform. Often, it is the look in her eyes - they always seem to make eye contact, searching for some human connection in their final seconds. Or maybe what lingers is the sense of knowing how easily it can all happen.

Dr. Clarke discusses these anguishing moments with many of his patients, the dozen or so he sees a year.

"You go to Great Adventure and you're standing on line for a roller coaster, and you can't get near the tracks because there's a barrier," he said. "You go down into the subway station, and all that's between you and the tracks is a yellow line. And subconsciously, we all realize how vulnerable we are. That yellow line is all that's there."[B]
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Old December 4th, 2005, 08:31 AM   #135
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I got searched the other day. Whoever doesn't like it can just leave the station.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 11:42 AM   #136
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Its pretty pointless, if you were a suicide bomber and had a bomb in your bag you'd either run off or detonate if faced with a bag search.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 11:52 AM   #137
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We call them 'One Unders' on London Underground, and the effect on the Drivers can be career-ending

The accidental ones are the worst; one of my drivers had a nasty one at Notting Hill Gate 2 years ago... The approach to the Westbound platform is around a tight but fast curve, as he rounded the curve there was a man peeing in the tunnel off the end of the platform. Because the train was rounding the curve the cab passed the man and so the driver thought he'd missed him, but the 'throw' of the car (i.e. the middle of each car gets closer to the tunnel wall than the ends because its rounding a curve) caught him and dragged him along. The driver stopped the train and got out to give the guy a bollocking for trespassing and giving him a fright, only to find his top half lying on the platform near his spine and his legs still under the train.

Another incident with one of my Drivers was a suicide at Upminster Bridge where the jumper jumped very late and came through the windscreen at 40mph, showering the driver with glass and bits of head.

Its horrible, why not take an overdose?
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Old December 4th, 2005, 04:09 PM   #138
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Tubeman -

Part of my reason for posting this article was because someone had asked you if you'd ever had an experience of this sort.

The article quotes 1 to 2 "12-9's" a week (which seems high to me) - is that comparable to the number of "one unders" in London?

Regards - Kent
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Old December 4th, 2005, 04:50 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quente
Tubeman -

Part of my reason for posting this article was because someone had asked you if you'd ever had an experience of this sort.

The article quotes 1 to 2 "12-9's" a week (which seems high to me) - is that comparable to the number of "one unders" in London?

Regards - Kent
I never had one as a Driver and have thus far managed to avoid attending them as a manager, just luck really.

Weirdly some drivers seem to attract them... a guy I manage has had 9!!!

I'd say perhaps a third of drivers have had one, but my depot is quite junior (i.e. relatively new drivers). Of those who have had one, quite a few have had several... as I said, some people seem to attract them!

London's 'One Unders' seem to come in fits and starts, we're going through a relatively quiet spell with perhaps only one every one to two weeks network-wide. I've seen three in a week just on my line before. They tend to peak during economic recession and during the Winter, usually Christmas time when people get depressed.

Some stations are notorious, Mile End seems to attract a lot at the moment. Tooting Broadway used to be the worst as it had a mental hospital just outside, so people were forever walking out of the hospital and under a train.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 06:21 PM   #140
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man this is morbid. why don't the train administrations do something like making platform screens mandatory (assuming they are not doing this?) , is the cost of these screens very high? of course I'm assuming the screens are effective in stopping most if not all of this.
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