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Old December 4th, 2005, 07:27 PM   #141
Andrew
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I was thinking this but I wonder if the age of the London Underground and New York subway has anything o do with them not being installed, does this make it more difficult? more costly? Is it because many of the platforms aren't straight? Surely when this kind of incident happens so often there should be a commitment to upgrade the stations no matter what the cost. Can you give us some reasons why platform doors haven't been installed tubeman? Or are there plans to?
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Old December 4th, 2005, 08:25 PM   #142
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It's more a public relations tool to assure passengers that something is being done, albeit it might not be effective.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 09:31 PM   #143
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Yes, some of the stations in NYC arent straight, and NYC has 468 stations, so you can just imagine how much it will cost. Also, the company that runs the system are cheap bastards and the "Second Avenue Line" is still not finish, which was suppose to be finish 30 years ago or so. Another problem is the vandalism, imagine cleaning out all the grafitti/scratchfitti.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 02:01 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew
I was thinking this but I wonder if the age of the London Underground and New York subway has anything o do with them not being installed, does this make it more difficult? more costly? Is it because many of the platforms aren't straight? Surely when this kind of incident happens so often there should be a commitment to upgrade the stations no matter what the cost. Can you give us some reasons why platform doors haven't been installed tubeman? Or are there plans to?
There has obviously been a Risk Assessment and platform edge doors have been deemed not worth the expense, as I'm not aware of any programme for their universal introduction.

If every tunnel section station got PEDs the 'jumpers' would simply find the nearest open-section station; its not as if you whimsically make your mind up to top yourself; its premeditated.

I suppose its a bit like banning paracetamol to prevent people overdosing... excessive!
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Old December 5th, 2005, 02:19 AM   #145
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I'd imagine Tokyo gets several a day given Japan's propensity for suicide. Anytime a train is delayed at a station (which is practically never), one can only guess that a jumper is the reason.

I hate it when people do this as a means of suicide, but what's even worse are the ones that are accidental, idiots who have no concept of self-preservation. When a multi-ton vehicle moving at 30 mph is pulling to a station, getting infront of that thing or too close to it is asking for trouble.

Seriously though, if these people are desparate to end their lives in a subway, why not just jump on the third rail?
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Old December 5th, 2005, 02:28 AM   #146
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...but he was pushed onto the track.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 02:55 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
Weirdly some drivers seem to attract them... a guy I manage has had 9!!!
Given his record number of one unders, is this guy still driving a train? Seems like going through that experience once would be enough to encourage anyone to transfer to another position.

Does London Underground offer driver's counseling?

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Old December 5th, 2005, 03:53 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quente
Often, it is the look in her eyes - they always seem to make eye contact, searching for some human connection in their final seconds. Or maybe what lingers is the sense of knowing how easily it can all happen.
Sorry to add to the morbidity, but train operators are usually taught in driver ed. to close their eyes as some people have been know to even smile at the driver in those final few seconds. freaky.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 07:00 AM   #149
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Most subways in Tokyo don't have a third rail. And platform doors aren't viable in some places for a few reasons-
The platforms are already quite narrow, and putting platform doors will only worsen platform congestion.
The headways are already at 90 seconds, and putting platform doors will only worsen the train dwell time, delaying the system, making congestion worse, increasing the dwell time, and so on.
If you're going to commit suicide, a little wall in front of you isn't going to stop you.

When there's a delay caused by someone falling on the tracks, it flashes on all the information boards in the Tokyo area, I guess to warn commuters of delays.

The Odakyu limited express trains have the driver cabin on a 2nd floor, so that people in the front car can look out the window in front of them. I heard that if the driver sees a potential suicide attempt in front of him, he can make the glass opaque so it won't significantly traumatize the passengers.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 08:12 AM   #150
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I understand the most common condition of a body in such cases is that the torso ends up twisted around several times from the friction between the immobile platform and mobile train.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 09:16 AM   #151
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What would be the ratio of suicide cases to accidents and pushovers for the one to every two /three weeks. If it's very high then the case versus platform screens as a mitigator for these incidents will not be effective. BUT if more than half the incidents are people getting pushed over or accidents of some sort then the screens would make sense. I think it makes more sense when the platform is narrow as there's a tendency to get accidentally pushed if the platform gets really crowded. I understand that there is a cost / benefit equation to this in terms of lives and budgets. Am just curious where this is at?
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Old December 5th, 2005, 06:59 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quente
Given his record number of one unders, is this guy still driving a train? Seems like going through that experience once would be enough to encourage anyone to transfer to another position.

Does London Underground offer driver's counseling?

Kent
Oh yes, with a smile. We call him 'The Angel of Death', he doesn't give a shit really... which is the right attitude to have otherwise it would destroy you. Its not your fault someone jumped under your train, its theirs, although some drivers take it very personally and feel like they've killed someone.

Everyone gets counselling if they want it and if their doctor keeps signing them off, 9 months off work on full pay. I'd say a month is typical, although a lot of drivers like to come back after only a day or two so that its less of a drama when they go back 'on the front'.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 07:05 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikko
Sorry to add to the morbidity, but train operators are usually taught in driver ed. to close their eyes as some people have been know to even smile at the driver in those final few seconds. freaky.
There's no training pertaining to 'One Unders'... its not mentioned.

All you're told to do is to raise the alarm immediately and try to get the Traction Current turned off.

People 'pretend' to jump under your train all the time. When its a kid or a bunch of lads on a Friday night it doesn't faze you as you know they're cocking about, but I've had instances where a lone person has been stood right on the edge of the platform staring at me, and you do think "are they about to jump?".

Drivers do say that people are less likely to jump if you have your cab light on, as they don't want to see the driver, but how they'd be able to interview dead people to ascertain that they jumped because the cab light wasn't on I don't know
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Old December 5th, 2005, 07:13 PM   #154
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In Hong Kong, Taiwan, mainland China, Singapore, Malaysia and Japan there are emergency stop buttons all over the platform

In Japan there are some stations with stereo cameras that detect track trespassing
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Old December 5th, 2005, 09:59 PM   #155
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it wont be effective...they would have to search everyone and still i have some doubts.
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Old December 6th, 2005, 01:48 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
It's more a public relations tool to assure passengers that something is being done, albeit it might not be effective.
Very true, it's all politics, there's really not much that can be done short of searching every single passenger before they enter any of the 468 stations in the system that would be effective.
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Old December 6th, 2005, 01:54 AM   #157
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It's useless, there'd be too many people to check bags and backpacks of!

Can you imagine the chaos this could create during rush hours?

Furthermore, I think policemen would be located only at the very main stations.. and who knows where terrorists get the train?
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Old December 9th, 2005, 07:37 AM   #158
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New York Subway Builders Find 200 Year-Old Wall

New York subway builders find 200-yr-old wall

NEW YORK, Dec 8 (Reuters) - Builders working on a new subway station at the southern tip of Manhattan have found the remains of a stone wall thought to be part of a fort that protected the city in the late 17th century.

New York City authorities said on Thursday the 40-foot (12-metre) section of wall had been found at a depth of around 10 feet (3 metres) in Battery Park, a green area that looks out on New York harbor and the Statue of Liberty.

"This wall most likely is a portion of the gun batteries that once protected the city in the late 17th and 18th centuries and gave rise to the modern park name," said Robert Tierney, chairman of the Landmarks Preservation Commission.

He said the city and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority would work together to preserve the remains, which were described as "an important remnant of the history of New York City."

Among the artifacts found in the area -- where a series of forts were built between 1625 and 1780 -- was a 1744 George II half penny in very good condition, city authorities said in a statement.

The wall was found during construction work on the new South Ferry Station underneath the park.

"Because this project was within a historically significant area, archaeologists considered it likely that archaeological resources would be found, although no one guessed that such a large portion of the Battery could have survived," the statement said.
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Old December 9th, 2005, 05:17 PM   #159
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Neat!
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Old December 9th, 2005, 05:53 PM   #160
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Theyre building a new Subway station in Manhattan? Must be the first in what, 40 years?
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