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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #1701
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That's what's said about all the metro systems, but still, I'd like to see their annual financial report or a balance sheet (or however that is called).
Is it possible that once system is "finished", and when they have expenses mainly for power, salaries and maintenance, tickets can't cover even with a ridership over 4 million people a day.
How much is a ride? $4, $5?
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Old March 6th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #1702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
There is no metro system in the world which can cover its operational expenditure from ticket sales.
Not true.
There are several examples in Asia alone.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #1703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Not true.
There are several examples in Asia alone.
Why only in Asia? The Moscow Metro pays for itself and operates at a profit.
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Old March 6th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #1704
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He is Indian. My statement doesn't preclude the existence of such systems outside of Asia.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 02:13 AM   #1705
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I doubt any metro network gets by without being subsidised

Anyhow, today's Canadian take centering on NYC:
Eating Food on the Subway -- 23'59"
or
Eating Food on the Subway
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Old March 7th, 2012, 05:40 AM   #1706
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Umm guys, ever heard of the MTR? They make profits simply by ticket sales and then on top of that, they make profits through commercial properties, malls and real estate. They posted profits of 1.5 billion USD. Come on now. How many systems can do that eh?
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Old March 7th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #1707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
There is no metro system in the world which can cover its operational expenditure from ticket sales.
Actually, Vancouver's SkyTrain network already breaks-even in terms of operations and is approaching ridership levels that can help subsidize other parts of the network.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #1708
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Quote:
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Actually, Vancouver's SkyTrain network already breaks-even in terms of operations and is approaching ridership levels that can help subsidize other parts of the network.
But thats a driveless system....there are very few large scale systems that breakeven....
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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #1709
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Old March 7th, 2012, 10:21 PM   #1710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901
There is no metro system in the world which can cover its operational expenditure from ticket sales.
I am almost sure that the Metro de Medellín covers its operational expenditure from ticket sales, however it still has a large debt from the construction
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Old March 8th, 2012, 12:11 AM   #1711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shree711 View Post
Umm guys, ever heard of the MTR? They make profits simply by ticket sales and then on top of that, they make profits through commercial properties, malls and real estate. They posted profits of 1.5 billion USD. Come on now. How many systems can do that eh?
That's not a transit system, that's a real-estate holding company. I'm sure if the MTA owned Macy's, Rockefeller Center and Bloomingdale's, they'd be raking in the dough too.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 12:25 AM   #1712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54

That's not a transit system, that's a real-estate holding company. I'm sure if the MTA owned Macy's, Rockefeller Center and Bloomingdale's, they'd be raking in the dough too.
How can you say that it is not a transit system? It runs subway trains.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 01:40 AM   #1713
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Hong Kong's MTR transit operations are profitable all on their own.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 01:52 AM   #1714
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Quote:
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How can you say that it is not a transit system? It runs subway trains.
Quoting you, "they make profits through commercial properties, malls and real estate..."

The firm you're referring to is a mixed venture. The MTA does not have real estate that it owns that it rents, or leases out and thus profits from. I'm sure the organization that you are referring to uses the revenues from its real estate to help cover losses incurred from its transit operations.

Do I really have to quote something you said, to explain something to you?
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Old March 8th, 2012, 02:31 AM   #1715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shree711 View Post
It runs subway trains.
I bet the scale of their subway operation matches that sort that's "done on the side", eh?
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Old March 8th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #1716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000

Quoting you, "they make profits through commercial properties, malls and real estate..."

The firm you're referring to is a mixed venture. The MTA does not have real estate that it owns that it rents, or leases out and thus profits from. I'm sure the organization that you are referring to uses the revenues from its real estate to help cover losses incurred from its transit operations.

Do I really have to quote something you said, to explain something to you?
I said quite clearly that it makes a profit by running trains and then much more profit by other ventures.
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Old March 8th, 2012, 05:36 PM   #1717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover
I bet the scale of their subway operation matches that sort that's "done on the side", eh?
What do you mean by that? The network may not be that long (210 kms) but the ridership is very high and so are the frequencies.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #1718
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I said quite clearly that it makes a profit by running trains and then much more profit by other ventures.
Doesn't matter, it's still different.

They have access to a second source of revenue, the real estate, which the MTA doesn't. Period.

They can take money earned from their real estate ventures and spend it on improving the mass transit aspect of their portfolio, and since they have a secondary source of revenue they can afford to have extremely slim margins on their transportation services because, they have two streams of revenue. So that could allow them to keep their fairs artificially low, because they know they have that revenue coming from the real estate which is a locked in source of revenue, which guarantees them a predetermined amount of money for an agreed upon number of years in a legally binding document, making it much easier to project future earnings than say what the MTA has to rely on, which is solely how many people swipe their MetroCards.

I'll take you at your word that they make a profit on both aspects of their portfolio. But the real estate has the potential to alter the entire dynamic of the organization, like how they access capital for large investments, they have two completely separate sources of revenue in which they can borrow money against, or issue bonds from, and again, it could effect how they price fairs. That's totally different.

It's crazy that this even needs to be explained.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 06:42 PM   #1719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Not true.
There are several examples in Asia alone.
Yes, there are 5 metros in Asia, including one in my city, which are operationally profitable but that profit includes income from sources other than ticket sales.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #1720
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By "done on the side", I'm implying that operating all its subway be secondary while its property-management functions be the --uhm-- entrepreneur's prime business
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