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Old March 9th, 2012, 10:04 PM   #1721
quashlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
Yes, there are 5 metros in Asia, including one in my city, which are operationally profitable but that profit includes income from sources other than ticket sales.
There are systems that recoup all the operating costs through operating revenue, even ones that don’t engage in any major trackside development. Note that the examples I give here are all publicly-run subways, typically less efficient and less “profit-driven” than other systems with higher degrees of privatization—I'm intentionally omitting all the private railways, JR, and other systems, but those would also show profits. Note that these are all examples in Japan, too, hardly a low-cost country.
Sendai City Subway (FY2010)
Subway operating revenue: •10,892,110,000
Subway operating costs: •9,514,676,000
Subway operating surplus: •1,377,434,000

Fukuoka City Subway (FY2010)
Subway operating revenue: •23,889,000,000
Subway operating costs: •21,617,000,000
Subway operating surplus: •2,272,000,000

Sapporo Municipal Subway (FY2010)
Subway operating revenue: •37,518,507,130
Subway operating costs: •31,491,802,543
Subway operating surplus: •6,026,704,587
Nagoya Municipal Subway (FY2009)
Subway operating revenue: •74,070,000,000
Subway operating costs: •58,156,000,000
Subway operating surplus: •15,914,000,000

Ōsaka Municipal Subway (FY2010)
Subway operating revenue: •151,406,000,000
Subway operating costs: •114,807,000,000
Subway operating surplus: •36,599,000,000

Kōbe Municipal Subway (FY2009)
Subway operating revenue: •19,896,281,795
Subway operating costs: •18,763,465,055
Subway operating surplus: •1,132,816,740

Yokohama Municipal Subway (FY2010)
Subway operating revenue: •37,286,000,000
Subway operating costs: •30,910,000,000
Subway operating surplus: •6,376,000,000

Tōkyō Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation (Toei) Subway (FY2010)
Subway operating revenue: •130,237,000,000
Subway operating costs: •113,192,000,000
Subway operating surplus: •17,045,000,000
I count a lot more than just 5 systems, and I haven't even looked at China, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, et al…

Of the nine publicly-run subways in Japan, only one (Kyōto) is unable to recoup all of its operating costs through operating revenue. Just to fully disclose everything, “operating revenue” does include additional sources of revenue outside of fares (e.g., ad revenue), but most systems everywhere generate revenue through ads, and this is typically counted as part of the operating revenue. Many of these systems would still recoup all operating costs even when only looking at the fare revenue.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 01:33 AM   #1722
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And do not forget the subway in Moscow, which also pays for its current operations and works with a profit.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 05:07 AM   #1723
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Do all these lines run 24 hours, 7 days a week?
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Old March 10th, 2012, 07:24 AM   #1724
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In Japan there are no overnight trains at all except a sleeper in Hokkaido.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 07:44 AM   #1725
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That’s not true either, but that issue is a bit of a tangent anyways. I’m only responding to the assertion by Abhishek901 that there is no example of a system operating with surplus / profit, or that the only systems that do so are able to do so because they have other significant sources of revenue.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 08:22 AM   #1726
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Astor Place

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DSCN2458 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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Old March 10th, 2012, 04:40 PM   #1727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quashlo View Post
Thatís not true either, but that issue is a bit of a tangent anyways. Iím only responding to the assertion by Abhishek901 that there is no example of a system operating with surplus / profit, or that the only systems that do so are able to do so because they have other significant sources of revenue.
Why not? I gave an example of a system that operates at a profit only on the carriage of passengers, regardless of other less significant sources of income - the Moscow Metro.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #1728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
By "done on the side", I'm implying that operating all its subway be secondary while its property-management functions be the --uhm-- entrepreneur's prime business
That is not necessarily true. The MTR never develop's properties solely. They almost always end up doing it in a joint venture. Even though the majority of its profits are coming from real estate and advertisements, train operations are still their primary business. The MTR often funds its ventures by raising money through a couple of ways:

- Asking the government for it
- Asking Hong Kongers for it through adding a little extra onto the fares for people who use the octopus card (which is more or less everyone)
- Getting loans

etc.

Profits from their other ventures aren't the only thing which they use to do enhance their operations.
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Old March 10th, 2012, 05:17 PM   #1729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Doesn't matter, it's still different.

They have access to a second source of revenue, the real estate, which the MTA doesn't. Period.

They can take money earned from their real estate ventures and spend it on improving the mass transit aspect of their portfolio, and since they have a secondary source of revenue they can afford to have extremely slim margins on their transportation services because, they have two streams of revenue. So that could allow them to keep their fairs artificially low, because they know they have that revenue coming from the real estate which is a locked in source of revenue, which guarantees them a predetermined amount of money for an agreed upon number of years in a legally binding document, making it much easier to project future earnings than say what the MTA has to rely on, which is solely how many people swipe their MetroCards.

I'll take you at your word that they make a profit on both aspects of their portfolio. But the real estate has the potential to alter the entire dynamic of the organization, like how they access capital for large investments, they have two completely separate sources of revenue in which they can borrow money against, or issue bonds from, and again, it could effect how they price fairs. That's totally different.

It's crazy that this even needs to be explained.
My friend, please read through this:

http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/investrela...rpt_e/E117.pdf
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Old March 10th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #1730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vartal View Post
Why not? I gave an example of a system that operates at a profit only on the carriage of passengers, regardless of other less significant sources of income - the Moscow Metro.
I was not responding to you...
We're actually on the same side of the argument, but I guess you can't understand that.
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Old March 11th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #1731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shree711 View Post
That is not necessarily true
is precisely how financial speculation comes across to me. The stats, data that you and other residents in other urban centres have been having lobbed at for presumably ages now are phony, period Me, I shan't be conned.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 09:32 PM   #1732
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March 15 - old man falls or jumps under the G train at Caroll Street in Brooklyn.


source: http://twitter.com/#!/toddphoto/stat...021378/photo/1


source: http://twitter.com/#!/toddphoto/stat...940992/photo/1

The motorman couldn't stop in time; is in shock.

This happens several times a day in New York:
http://gothamist.com/2012/03/15/man_...rain_at_sm.php
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Old March 18th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #1733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
That is bullshit. Investing a fortune just to prevent some dickheads from jumping infront of a subway car.
After watching the BBCs tube documentary it's not as simple as just someone jumping in front of a train. As soon as that person jumps, the train driver might have just had his own life ruined. He/she has to either cope or try and deal with what's just happened in front of them. Depending on the person who knows what might follow. Giving up the job or having your family life ruined is a big possibility. You can apply the same to the staff working in the station, having to see that in front of you and deal with it must be very hard to deal with. All that before anyone goes down to help or clear the body from the track.

Away from the mental side of the job, there's the operations side, managing the stations and also managing the delays. Some of Londons busiest stations have safety issues of capacity. Stations can very easily be full in minutes and closed for short periods of time. The main reason why are closed is because someone could be forced on to the tracks.

Back to the jumper, once they've jumped that means the complete shut down of whole lines or sections of lines. That means trains stuck in tunnels and massive delays. In London that happens 40 or so times a year. Its clear that in areas these station doors should be mandatory. Certainly on the busiest lines where you have station managers worrying daily about someone being accidentally pushed and certainly where stations are year on year getting busier.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 08:13 AM   #1734
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DNAinfo
http://www.dnainfo.com/20120318/uppe...treet-broadway

Quote:
Man Struck by Subway at 72nd Street and Broadway
Updated March 18, 2012 11:52am
March 18, 2012 11:52am | By Tom Liddy, DNAinfo News Editor

MANHATTAN — A man was struck by a subway train at an Upper West Side station early Sunday morning, authorities said.

The man, whose age was not known, was hit by a southbound 1 train at the 72nd Street station just before 2:40 a.m.

His condition was not immediately known, but authorities said he was breathing when he was taken to St. Luke's Hospital.

This is the third time in recent weeks that someone has been struck by a train at the busy station.

On Feb. 29, a 62-year-old man was struck and killed by a train after suffering a dizzy spell, authorities said. Earlier, it was believed that he had committed suicide.

Later in the day, another man, who appeared to be intoxicated was hit by a train and listed in stable condition, despite having serious injuries.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 08:58 PM   #1735
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Old March 24th, 2012, 01:11 AM   #1736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andysimo123 View Post
After watching the BBCs tube documentary it's not as simple as just someone jumping in front of a train. As soon as that person jumps, the train driver might have just had his own life ruined. He/she has to either cope or try and deal with what's just happened in front of them. Depending on the person who knows what might follow. Giving up the job or having your family life ruined is a big possibility. You can apply the same to the staff working in the station, having to see that in front of you and deal with it must be very hard to deal with. All that before anyone goes down to help or clear the body from the track.

Away from the mental side of the job, there's the operations side, managing the stations and also managing the delays. Some of Londons busiest stations have safety issues of capacity. Stations can very easily be full in minutes and closed for short periods of time. The main reason why are closed is because someone could be forced on to the tracks.

Back to the jumper, once they've jumped that means the complete shut down of whole lines or sections of lines. That means trains stuck in tunnels and massive delays. In London that happens 40 or so times a year. Its clear that in areas these station doors should be mandatory. Certainly on the busiest lines where you have station managers worrying daily about someone being accidentally pushed and certainly where stations are year on year getting busier.
And its not always suicide or sheer stupidity neither. accidents happens.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 04:46 AM   #1737
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I live in Tokyo; there is at least 1 train suicide daily. It happens so often that there are 'train suicide teams' that specialize in 'clean-up'; I've heard they can get trains running again in 15 minutes. I've actually witnessed a post-suicide clean-up; they are pretty quick.

To discourage people from jumping in front of trains in Japan, I believe there is a law that requires the deceased person's family to pay for clean-up and damages, something like $250,000 I think.
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Old March 24th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #1738
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DNAinfo
http://www.dnainfo.com/20120324/will...ht-on-platform

Quote:
Man Killed by Subway Train in Williamsburg after Fight on Platform
March 24, 2012 2:12pm

By Amy Zimmer and William J. Gorta

A brawl at a Williamsburg subway stop that spilled on to the tracks ended with a young man being crushed by a train as he struggled to get back on the platform Friday night, police and witnesses said.

Joshua Basin, 20, was caught between the train and the platform edge by a Manhattan-bound L train as he tried to pull himself up, witnesses said.

A drunken man who had been pestering straphangers on a Brooklyn-bound train pushed Basin and another man out of the car at Bedford Avenue, telling them, "It’s show time. It’s show time," a witness told DNAinfo.

A fight erupted, sending Basin and the drunk tumbling off the other side of the platform into the roadbed, witnesses said.

The drunk, wearing a dark sweatshirt and jeans and described as “very off” by a witness, managed to avoid the train and escape.

"He ran away," Basin’s mother Zena told the Daily News. "He left my son dead."

A witness said the disheveled drunk with “extremely dirty” fingernails had been “clearly looking for a fight.”

“He approached in a posturing kind of way,” a witness said. “He was very creepy, smiling and laughing.”

No one could make out what the drunk was saying, but Basin could be heard telling the aggressor, “Stop it. Stop it, man,” the witness said.

The witness lost sight of the men when they left the train, but she said, “The next thing was I heard people screaming and then I saw his [Basin’s] body sticking up out of the train.”

The slight Basin was not a fighter, his mother told the Daily News.

"He would never hurt anyone," she told the paper. "He was a good boy."
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Old March 26th, 2012, 05:08 AM   #1739
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Originally Posted by nouveau.ukiyo View Post
I live in Tokyo; there is at least 1 train suicide daily. It happens so often that there are 'train suicide teams' that specialize in 'clean-up'; I've heard they can get trains running again in 15 minutes. I've actually witnessed a post-suicide clean-up; they are pretty quick.

To discourage people from jumping in front of trains in Japan, I believe there is a law that requires the deceased person's family to pay for clean-up and damages, something like $250,000 I think.
So the family not only has to mourn the lost of a loved one. They also have to file for bankruptcy.

What if it's a widow with two children. Maybe when she finds out that in addition to having to bury her husband she now owes the gov't $250,000 in addition to funeral costs she'll jump in front of a train too.
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Old April 2nd, 2012, 04:47 PM   #1740
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NY Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1054106

Quote:
Two men hit by subway trains Sunday morning - one dead, one expected to survive
24-year-old, 46-year-old hit in separate incidents

By Anna Russell AND Barry Paddock / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 12:45 PM
Updated: Sunday, April 1, 2012, 12:45 PM


Two men were hit by subway trains Sunday morning in separate incidents, officials said. One man died.

A 24-year-old intoxicated man stumbled onto the elevated tracks at Broadway and 31st St. station in Astoria, Queens, about 5:15 a.m., cops said.

He died on the tracks after being crushed by a Manhattan-bound N train.

Meanwhile, a 46-year-old man was hit by a north-bound C train approaching the 96th St. station on Central Park West in Manhattan about 8:00 a.m., officials said.

The man was in the tunnel on the tracks just south of the station.

“The train operator actually saw the person on the tracks but couldn’t stop in time,” said MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz.

Passenger Karen Taylor was on her way to a Palm Sunday church service when the train hit the man.

“They cut the power and left only the emergency lights on,” said Taylor, 53. “When we found out what had occurred, people were upset and crying.”

Passengers were stuck on the train about 90 minutes. Emergency workers brought the victim through the subway car Taylor was riding in.

“He was pretty bruised but he was breathing on his own,” Taylor said.

“I prayed for him,” she added. “I don’t know who he is or what his name is but Jesus knows.”

The victim was taken to St. Luke’s Roosevelt Hospital with head trauma, officials said. He is expected to survive.

[email protected]


Vic Nicastro for New York Daily News
Detectives at the Astoria train station where a man was killed Sunday.
DNAinfo
http://www.dnainfo.com/20120402/fort...street-station

Quote:
Person Struck by G Train at Fulton Street Station
April 2, 2012 7:52am | By Sonja Sharp, DNAinfo Reporter/Producer


BROOKLYN — A person was struck by a train at the Fulton Street G train station Monday morning, authorities said.

The individual was hit by a train and was taken from the station alive, MTA staff at the scene said.

Brooklyn-bound G train was skipping the Fulton Street Station due to the police investigation, according to the MTA.

It wasn't immediately clear where the person was struck or how the incident occurred.


A person was struck by a train at the Fulton Street G train station on Mon., April 2, 2012. (DNAinfo/Sonja Sharp)
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