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Old September 22nd, 2006, 07:40 AM   #1
hkskyline
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Canada's Sprawl









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Old September 22nd, 2006, 03:52 PM   #2
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Old September 25th, 2006, 03:13 PM   #3
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Cool pictures. It's as far as the eye can see. hkskyline, do you always sit in the window seat?
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Old September 26th, 2006, 07:39 AM   #4
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I try to choose window seats whenever possible.
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Old December 6th, 2006, 07:31 AM   #5
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Old December 9th, 2006, 04:12 AM   #6
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Not as good as us-american sprawl but still nice.
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Old December 10th, 2006, 04:29 AM   #7
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Good and sprawl shouldn't be used in the same sentence.
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Old December 21st, 2006, 09:03 AM   #8
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Old December 21st, 2006, 09:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcanadian View Post
Good and sprawl shouldn't be used in the same sentence.
agreed!!! 100%


good sprawl
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Old January 12th, 2007, 07:35 PM   #10
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While Canadian sprawl is not as sparse as their American counterparts, neither is sustainable, and both suffer the same traffic and street life problems.
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Old February 14th, 2008, 12:15 PM   #11
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Spreading sprawl
Billions in taxpayer dollars subsidize uneconomic transit lines that spread the tentacles of urban sprawl ever farther

2 February 2008
National Post

Canadians are becoming more and more dependent on the automobile, Stats-Can told us last week, citing figures showing that 74% of Canadians are full-time drivers, up from 70% in 1998 and 68% in 1992.

This trend, a natural consequence of suburban sprawl, is only to be expected. Our governments spend billions to promote the use of suburbs.

Take the most recent shot in the arm for sprawl, British Columbia's $14-billion plan to enable longer, faster commutes; to develop the low-density areas outside Vancouver; to enable the dispersion of Vancouverites to the outlying areas; and to counter the natural incentive we all have to live close to our places of work, study, and play.

"Our new $14-billion Provincial Transit Plan will add 600 frequent buses out-side Metro Vancouver --a 60% increase," Kevin Falcon, BC's Minister of Transportation, boasted to the Chilliwack Times this week, explaining the provincial desire that Chilliwack and other communities outside Vancouver grow their populations.

"We will be putting frequent buses along the Trans-Canada Highway to connect Abbotsford and Chilliwack to Langley, Surrey and our rapid transit stations," Mr. Falcon continued, adding that the government will ultimately provide gold-plated bus and rail service to make it easy for people to leave Vancouver for the suburbs. "By 2030, Skytrain will extend out to Langley, integrating RapidBuses with Rapid Transit in Metro Vancouver."

B.C.'s announcement follows Ontario's own mega MoveOntario-to-the-Suburbs-by-2020 plan, at $17.5-billion the largest transit plan in Canadian history. The plan to transform the Greater Toronto Region, an area bigger than Prince Edward Island, includes 52 rapid transit projects along 902 kilometres of new or improved rapid transit routes designed to boost region-wide travelling. "It will result in 800 million new transit trips per year," exults the province, while only "taking 300 million car trips off GTA roads." This net expansion of 500 million vehicular trips a year throughout the Greater Toronto Area promises to be the greatest spur to sprawl in Canadian history.

In the popular conception, the private automobile causes sprawl and public transit is either benign or beneficial as a factor of development. This misreads history, including fairly recent history. Before the province of Ontario directed the Toronto Transit Commission to service Toronto's outer suburbs in the early 1950s, the suburbs were largely rural and undeveloped, with densities so uniformly low that they could support but a handful of public transit lines. Only after the province stepped in by creating Metropolitan Toronto as a vehicle for massive infrastructure spending in the suburbs did sprawl on a grand scale unfold. Within a decade, the TTC's route

mileage increased by 75%, almost all of it to accommodate the suburbs and almost all of it uneconomic. In the process, the TTC -- until the advent of Metropolitan government a self-sufficient enterprise that helped make Toronto one of the continent's most compact cities -- became a burden for city taxpayers and an arch agent of sprawl.

Public transit, in fact, has always been a determinant of sprawl. A century ago, when politicians first started promoting a Greater Toronto, they recognized that the city's transit systems, then privately owned, were a great deterrent to the desire for the rapid outward expansion of the city that was then in vogue. Privately owned public transit companies were interested in providing service to paying customers, not in developing routes that met the development dreams of local politicians.

"A Greater Toronto not only means a concentration of wealth, but lots of land for its people to live on. The town can be spread out," argued a prominent parliamentarian and reformer who wanted the government to seize the transit companies in order to expand service to the hinterlands. Only after the government did, indeed, seize the private transit companies could dreams of a Greater Toronto be realized. With profits from transit diverted from private shareholders to a public purpose -- uneconomic routes servicing low-density areas -- sprawl made its debut in Toronto. The sprawl was modest, however, because the transit company was not allowed to run a loss. Sprawl -- uneconomic development at the urban periphery -- was limited to a few pockets, and even then the service those pockets received was infrequent, making them unable to attract large numbers of residents.

The financial restraint that transit companies once brought is now gone, in Toronto, in Vancouver, in Montreal, and elsewhere in the country. Transit companies are no longer expected to break even, let alone make a return for their shareholders. They instead are treated as worthy basket cases, deserving of lavish funding from all levels of government in order to provide service to areas that cannot support transit, and often themselves.

With service thus provided, the areas can grow. This is how Canada sprawls.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 09:59 PM   #12
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But that article doesn't tell the whole story. At 100,000 people arriving into the Greater Toronto Region, we have to deal with better transit links to the suburbs. The suburbs exist.. isn't it better to improve public transport to encourage the existing suburbs to increase in density? The Province of Ontario enacted Green Belt legislation a few years back to curtail sprawl, and it seems to be working... condos are sprouting up downtown like mushrooms after a rain.
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Old February 18th, 2008, 04:34 AM   #13
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The problem is whether taxpayers' money should continue to be spent on these loss-making transit lines, and how long they'll be loss-making until the density increases to a level where reasonably-frequent transit is economically viable. I doubt much can be done to drastically increase the density in many of the sprawling areas in 905 land.
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