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Old April 9th, 2008, 12:20 PM   #21
Ingenioren
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Simply good looking=) Who cares if it's fake? I love car-free towns=) Need more of these instead of boring suburbia! Got to visit this place sometime!
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Old April 9th, 2008, 02:49 PM   #22
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Jakriborg (it is a Malmö suburb, for those who didn't know) has quite a sterile feel to it, and that's why I don't really like it. It doesn't matter if it is "fake" or not.

They want to extend it a lot, by the way.
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Old November 8th, 2008, 10:49 PM   #23
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Much of the architecture of the late 19th century was also considered fake in its day, commercialised and without much artistic value, out of tune with the emerging world of steel and machinery. This is why quite of lot of it was torn down and replaced by modern buildings
But with the passing of time we have become neutral to the context in which much of late 19th century historicist architecture was built, and we judge them solely on what meets the eye. In most cases, the comparison with the modern functionalist heritage is favourable. It will be the same with Jakriborg and in 100 years it will just be seen as a pretty little town. It is also refreshing to see that there is room for alternative thinking on what can and cannot be built in the 21st century. I mean, isnt there room for modernity and nostalgia to co-exist?

Jakriborg raises some interesting questions, though, on the economic viability of building a village from scratch. As far as I have understood, they are struggling with getting people to actually move there, cozy though it may be.
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Old November 8th, 2008, 11:43 PM   #24
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I would like to move there, they should build villages in Oslo.. ;D
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Old November 9th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #25
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Much of the architecture of the late 19th century was also considered fake in its day, commercialised and without much artistic value, out of tune with the emerging world of steel and machinery. This is why quite of lot of it was torn down and replaced by modern buildings
Just like contemporary architecture from '60, '70 today but it will propably change with time...
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Old November 9th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #26
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^ No, it won't. There isn't much 'heritage' of the modernist era we're still going to have in say 100 years - unlike historicist and older buildings.
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Old November 9th, 2008, 01:21 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluminat View Post
Just like contemporary architecture from '60, '70 today but it will propably change with time...
I wouldnt say that this is inevitable, but it is a logical conclusion to make, yes.

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Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
^ No, it won't. There isn't much 'heritage' of the modernist era we're still going to have in say 100 years - unlike historicist and older buildings.
What, it will be all torn down?
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Old April 17th, 2009, 09:04 PM   #28
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^ If you're considering the current development (replacing it with either contemporary buildings or reconstructions) - Yes. Most of it at least.

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the problem is that no one cares when it comes to build something outside of the historic town centers. if an investor builds some residential project the only question in a meeting is how we can make it cheeper. you cannot make a nice wooden floor because it's too expencive, you cannot make this and you cannot make that.
but if it comes to a reconstruction project the focus lies on the architecture and money is not such a problem.
with enough money and/or a good client you can always make nice projects.
I admire this human post of our Michael.
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Old August 12th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #29
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The skyline

image hosted on flickr

Jakriborg, Hjärup, Sweden by Ulf Liljankoski, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Jakriborg, Hjärup, Sweden by Ulf Liljankoski, on Flickr

Yes, it does look like a painting form the childhood.
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Old August 12th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #30
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Street looks don't look that bad but these "skylines" look extremely fake, nothing like a real town should look. They should at least build some "rathaus" so there would be a tower for diversity.
Anyway I'm totally against such an abomination. You can fake a style but you can't fake hundreds of years of shaping of the urban tissue that real old towns went trough. That's why it will always look fake, even after 50 years. You can't build Rome in one day and you can't build Riga's old town in one year. To create some proper athmosphere there are needed many many years of building, razing and building again.
Warsaw's old town looks legit after 50 years but it was rebuilt over the existing old tissue, you can't just create history.
No problem with taking inspiration from the past, but this is uninspired, just lazy copy.
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Old August 12th, 2012, 10:49 PM   #31
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Dont get me wrong, it looks nice but I think it comes across as faked.
If the developers had intended to pass it off as a genuine centuries-old town then the accusation would be justified. They have never made any such claim. I think they just wanted to emulate a traditional style whose charm and functionality have proven to be the most practical over the centuries.

Quote:
Warsaw's old town looks legit after 50 years but it was rebuilt over the existing old tissue, you can't just create history.
That is exactly what was done in Warsaw. One could argue that it is still "fake" copies of the originals.

The architecture in Jakriborg is very typical of the region it is found in. It is not trying to pass itself off as authentic, just conforming to what has already been established.

Quote:
No problem with taking inspiration from the past, but this is uninspired, just lazy copy.
Jakriborg is patterned on an established historic style, which to me is not much different than Warsaw rebuilding exactly what was there before. If you accuse one of laziness then you are also accusing the other as well.

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And modern architecture hasn't failed.
It seems that only a minority of people consider it worthy of praise. Most of the opinions about modern architecture I have read on this forum or heard in real life are decidedly negative. The best architecture will always be approved of by the majority. I don't think they condemn all examples, just that too much of it has been built. Also, untold numbers of historic structures have been torn down for the specific purpose of bowing to what should have been a passing style.

I happen to like Jakriborg very much. If I didn't know the story behind it I might have thought this was a photograph of a typical Scanian village.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7753622016/

Aerial view of Jakriborg.

http://litefranovan.blogspot.com/201...-i-hjarup.html

I'm still undecided about what to think of Jakriborg's "city walls". I wonder if they are going to completely encircle the town with them or what their ultimate purpose will be. Something similar to a gated community?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whyld/7723996384/
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Old August 13th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william of waco View Post
If the developers had intended to pass it off as a genuine centuries-old town then the accusation would be justified. They have never made any such claim.
They might have not made the claim but it's obvious from what we see on the photos.

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Originally Posted by william of waco View Post
I think they just wanted to emulate a traditional style whose charm and functionality have proven to be the most practical over the centuries.
People at these times didn't think about functionality a lot. It was just neccesity to pack as many houses inside of city walls as possible, hence the labirynth of narrow streets and passages that our 21th century romanticism perceive as "cozy". Back then they were hotbeds of filth and plagues. All in the name of defensive capability, forget about functionality.

I see no sense to recreate ancient urban concepts, because they actually have no place and lack of functionality in modern times. What's a purpose of the fake city walls ( ) ? For me it all actually looks sad and devoid of life, like a theme park where nobody wants to come.

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Originally Posted by william of waco View Post
That is exactly what was done in Warsaw. One could argue that it is still "fake" copies of the originals.
And what an acient foundation we have in Jakriborg? You have just said they didn't try to fake anything, so how can it be exactly what was done in Warsaw?
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Old August 13th, 2012, 01:30 AM   #33
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I also like Jakriborg, even though i got to know it only yesterday (by reading an article about the architecture on a local news site). The town looks cozy, modern and has a specific atmosphere/charm. It does look similar to the traditional urban settlements in the region, yet it is quite new and has its own character. It is not a newly built copy of the old germanic town, but rather a modern interpretation of it. Please, notice how not typically the houses are built and how funny some details look. Also, there is no traditionall germanic town that would look so funny from the distance (having the already posted skyline pictures in mind).
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Old August 13th, 2012, 01:33 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ingenioren View Post
Simply good looking=) Who cares if it's fake? I love car-free towns=) Need more of these instead of boring suburbia! Got to visit this place sometime!
Indeed! Such cozy districts could, actually, be a nice choice instead of building some unhumane blocks.
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Old August 13th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by uunxx View Post
People at these times didn't think about functionality a lot. It was just neccesity to pack as many houses inside of city walls as possible...

All in the name of defensive capability...
This sounds functional to me.

Quote:
Back then they were hotbeds of filth and plagues.
I think you will be surprised to learn that smaller medieval towns and even some big cities were nowhere near as filthy and plague-ridden that mainstream history insists they were. I would say this is particularly true of north European communities.

"Living in an urban setting comes with a price. Waste disposal in these crowded settings often becomes a problem. In the late medieval towns of York and Coventry, the town councils recognised and attempted to address their waste dilemmas for the betterment of the urban population at large. Individual inhabitants sometimes saw disposal in rivers and streets as a convenient solution to their own problems. But the local government had to take into account all of the users of the rivers and streets. Rivers and streets had to be seen as two parts of the same environmental issue because waste disposal in upstream gutters caused downstream river blockage. The town councils therefore developed legal and physical solutions to waste disposal. The councils forbade certain disposal practices and mandated others. They created urban services and appointed officers to monitor citizen behaviour. The evidence from the urban records reveals that when individuals violated common waste disposal norms, the issue was addressed by the civic authorities."

http://dolly.jorgensenweb.net/files/...with_waste.pdf

"This article investigates the workings of sanitation technologies in late medieval English and Scandinavian cities through both written and archeological evidence. It defines the roles of city corporations and individuals in the areas of street maintenance and waste management between the years 1350 and 1550. It argues that although the urban environment was managed through seemingly simple technologies, such as latrines and guttered cobblestone streets, the technologies required a conjunction of city-provided services and individual behavior management to make them work as intended. The late medieval city governments under investigation therefore crafted social relations to create functional sanitation systems. Because responsibility for sanitation was allocated both to individuals and to the city government, the waste-handling and sanitation strategies of the late medieval city were possibly not as ineffective as they appear on the surface."

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/technol...jorgensen.html

"...medieval sanitation developed through the reciprocal interaction between physical conditions and complex social systems. The available technologies and environmental demands prompted the development of certain social arrangements at the city level such as the growth of specialist sanitation jobs, collection of taxes and direct participation of residents. At the same time, social arrangements enabled some technological choices such as the provision of ward dung carts and river cleansing operations. In other words, some forms of city governmental organization resulted from the demands of material conditions of urban life and, likewise, physical sanitation technologies depended on governmental structures to be effective. A transnational perspective is employed to identify broader trends that characterize sanitation in northern late medieval cities. The written evidence relies heavily, although not exclusively, on the city council records from the Swedish city of Stockholm and English cities of Coventry, Norwich, and York. In addition to the written sources, the evidence includes archeological finds from a wider array of cities in Scandinavia (the areas which today are Denmark, Norway, and Sweden) and England. "

http://www.forskning.no/Artikler/200..._middelalderen

Quote:
I see no sense to recreate ancient urban concepts, because they actually have no place and lack of functionality in modern times.
If that is the case then why not rebuild Warsaw as a modern city? If you condemn Jakriborg of recreating ancient urban concepts then you are accusing Warsaw of the exact same thing.

Modern ideas of livability made an almost complete break with tradition. As a result this left a gaping void between the old and the new, one that present day communities have never recovered from. The average American suburb would be an excellent example of how horrific pure functionality can be while ignoring the past.
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Old August 13th, 2012, 03:59 PM   #36
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Great thread, and great analysis "william of waco." I very much agree with the point's you've made that I've read so far.
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Old August 13th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #37
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It simply looks nice, I like the colours of the buildings and the paved streets are great! Though it's fake, who cares?
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Old August 14th, 2012, 03:58 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4life View Post
I also like Jakriborg, even though i got to know it only yesterday (by reading an article about the architecture on a local news site). The town looks cozy, modern and has a specific atmosphere/charm. It does look similar to the traditional urban settlements in the region, yet it is quite new and has its own character. It is not a newly built copy of the old germanic town, but rather a modern interpretation of it. Please, notice how not typically the houses are built and how funny some details look. Also, there is no traditionall germanic town that would look so funny from the distance (having the already posted skyline pictures in mind).
All well and fine, but . . .

They really, really reeeeally need to add a modern interpretation of an old germanic church, city hall, tower, or something - anything - bigger than that same mind paralyzing sameness the silhouettes present.

Seriously.

Last edited by Judge Roy Beam; August 14th, 2012 at 04:15 AM.
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Old August 14th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #39
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http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/f...eb871ae6_h.jpg

are they preparing for mongol invasion
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Old August 15th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Iluminat View Post
Are they preparing for mongol invasion
According to one source the walls were intended to filter out the noise from a railway passing next to that part of the town. I guess they felt that a regular wall would not compliment the aesthetic appeal of the town's architecture. Unfortunately they have not escaped the attention of graffiti "artists".


http://www.flickr.com/photos/whyld/7723993544/

Last edited by william of waco; August 15th, 2012 at 04:34 PM.
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