Nathan Phillips Square Revitalization | U/C | Downtown

[p5archit]

Well the talk is supposedly over and now it is official, the City has finally launched an International Competition to redesign Nathan Phillips Square. According to reports, the cost for the project has been projected at $40 million. However, to date only $16 million have been set aside by the city and the rest, they are hoping will come from the private sector.

http://www.toronto.ca/npsquarecompetition/index.htm

Why not go it alone? If it is really not possible to finance then, why does the city not make this an equal public/ private partnership- 50/50? By putting up at least half of the cash needed for the project, the City would retain half the control of the project-

Instead, we are now in a position of possibly having the square renamed, but even worse controlled by private interests- which would lead me to believe that it is no longer a public space and therefore, left to the whims of private enterprise...

Ahh yes, gotta love our new Kellog's Nathan Phillips Rice Krispy Square(---s)- Open Mondays and Wednesdays from 8AM to 10AM
Closed all other times (Private Functions)
Thank you not for not disturbing!

p5

[Taller, Better]

I'm nervous as to how much they are going to tamper with the original design in the name of "modernisation". I read a silly article in yesterday's Post making it sound like NPS was a kind of third world disaster, and would this project finally be one that Toronto doesn't fail miserably at? Nonsense- just move the Terry Fox thing to a nice quiet park somewhere else, change the ugly skate rental box and integrate a permanent stage somewhere. Surely that will not cost $40 million. I'd like to see them use that money to repair and reopen the observation deck on City Hall that was just slammed shut when some tiles blew off, and I think they should repair the elevated walkway and not rip it down. There are a lot of ego-driven architects sharpening their knives to hack up the original design and put their own stamp on it. We'll likely see a few renderings with a forest of mature trees when everyone knows any trees planted will be miserable little saplings trying to survive in a concrete planter.

[Canadian Chocho]

I don't see NPS being horrible, it just needs a small tune up, now what's in front of it is horrid! (Sheraton Centre, and 2 other ugly buildings, waste of downtown property)

[monkeyronin]

NPS really could use a bit of work. right now its a little bland and hostile, so this is certainly good news.

[SOLOMON]

finally!!... good for Toronto.

[KGB]

There's really only one way to do it....restore it to it's origional design.

City hall and the square are one design...and Toronto's greatest and most origional mid-century modernist architecture (TD Centre is great, but derivative of many similar buildings by Mies).

Revelle was a brillient Finnish architect that worked under Aalvar Alto, and City Hall was the crowning glory of his very short career...he died at only 54, before it was completed. This makes City Hall quite a catch for Toronto...a rarity basically no ther city outside of Finnland can claim...and we have the best.

The first thing that should be done is remove that Peace Garden...no "additions" to art should ever done. The omly thing that can remain is the Archer, as this was actually part of the design...Revell and Henry Moore were personal friends and Revell felt that the building was not complete without a Moore sculpture, he considered it the crowning touch.

That low building that houses the skate rentals, bathrooms, stairwells to parking, etc looks kinda crappy...that could use some reworking. Take out the Peace Garden so the square looks the way it's supposed to...restore the elevated walkways and the pool/fountain/arches. Restore the grand cerimonial entrance to the top of the podium (what do you think that big ramp is for), as well as the roof of the podium...there's a lot of great open space there, because the square cosists of many levels...not just the street level part. It all works together...it just doesn't seem that way because it's all been fucked with.

Otherwise, it's incredibly simple to just restore everything to its origional condition...I don't see needing some international competition to accomplish that.

Oh...and get rid of that temporary stage crap...that is so crappy I don't even know what to say...and it's used often enough, it's practicall y there all the time.

It's too bad whoever could own the rights to his work couldn't just sue the shit out of the city for desicrating his art...just like Michael Snow did to the Eaton Centre for their crass treatment of his "Geese". If the people don't intervene to stop brainless politicians from ruining our city's built form, then we might as well pack it in. But then again, the public is basically brainless when it comes to modernist architecture anyway...they won't care until it's too late...like always.

Think I'm over-reacting? Of all places, you'd think City Hall, being so obvious, would at least be spared from the worse treatment...but no....they actually take an area under the elevated walkway...put chain-link fence around it, and actually use it for storage of various crap. That just floors me.








KGB

[CrazyCanuck]

I'm sure there are some untouchables that the city will not let the deisgners touch. The can restore but not remove them. A nice restoration is always nice.

[Tuscani01]

Originally Posted by KGB

There's really only one way to do it....restore it to it's origional design.

City hall and the square are one design...and Toronto's greatest and most origional mid-century modernist architecture (TD Centre is great, but derivative of many similar buildings by Mies).

Revelle was a brillient Finnish architect that worked under Aalvar Alto, and City Hall was the crowning glory of his very short career...he died at only 54, before it was completed. This makes City Hall quite a catch for Toronto...a rarity basically no ther city outside of Finnland can claim...and we have the best.

The first thing that should be done is remove that Peace Garden...no "additions" to art should ever done. The omly thing that can remain is the Archer, as this was actually part of the design...Revell and Henry Moore were personal friends and Revell felt that the building was not complete without a Moore sculpture, he considered it the crowning touch.

That low building that houses the skate rentals, bathrooms, stairwells to parking, etc looks kinda crappy...that could use some reworking. Take out the Peace Garden so the square looks the way it's supposed to...restore the elevated walkways and the pool/fountain/arches. Restore the grand cerimonial entrance to the top of the podium (what do you think that big ramp is for), as well as the roof of the podium...there's a lot of great open space there, because the square cosists of many levels...not just the street level part. It all works together...it just doesn't seem that way because it's all been fucked with.

Otherwise, it's incredibly simple to just restore everything to its origional condition...I don't see needing some international competition to accomplish that.

Oh...and get rid of that temporary stage crap...that is so crappy I don't even know what to say...and it's used often enough, it's practicall y there all the time.

It's too bad whoever could own the rights to his work couldn't just sue the shit out of the city for desicrating his art...just like Michael Snow did to the Eaton Centre for their crass treatment of his "Geese". If the people don't intervene to stop brainless politicians from ruining our city's built form, then we might as well pack it in. But then again, the public is basically brainless when it comes to modernist architecture anyway...they won't care until it's too late...like always.

Think I'm over-reacting? Of all places, you'd think City Hall, being so obvious, would at least be spared from the worse treatment...but no....they actually take an area under the elevated walkway...put chain-link fence around it, and actually use it for storage of various crap. That just floors me.








KGB

Its not often that we agree, but I agree with every single thing you mentioned. Why change the square, its fine the way it is... some minor adjustments can do a lot for the space.

[urban 2.0]

Lets go all out and really change the square. I don't agree with this argument that we can't tamper with the 'post-modern' look. All civic squares around the world get transformed over time. War memorials get placed, streetcar tracks put in, markets, stores added.

Cities need to grow and evolve, NPS is rather a dull and dead place. It should be full of markets and patio bars. Part of the hinderence is the current configuration.

Change is good, as long as money is spent well.

[KGB]

NPS is rather a dull and dead place. It should be full of markets and patio bars.

I think that is a deadly attitude. For one, you are completely wrong about it being dull and dead...it's an architectural masterpeice, and it's full of people 365 days of the year...it's a true civic square, where people gather to express themselves...be it positively or negatively (protests). It's a place that is welcoming, and attracts large numbers of residents and tourists alike. Show me any city hall with as much activity.

It's a square, which the primary function is to provide an open space for "anything" to happen on...that's what a square is....want markets, patios and bars...go to Kensington.






KGB

[Dream Brother]

I'd hardly call it a masterpiece. It's about as bland as my butt cheeks. The square is blah and lacks colour and vibrance. What I think would look nice is if they painted the bottom of the reflecting pool a bluish colour like the fountains on University Avenue.

[Tuscani01]

Originally Posted by Dream Brother

I'd hardly call it a masterpiece. It's about as bland as my butt cheeks. The square is blah and lacks colour and vibrance. What I think would look nice is if they painted the bottom of the reflecting pool a bluish colour like the fountains on University Avenue.

I think that blue just makes the fountain look like a pool, I prefer the pond appearance which the fountain at city hall has. It looks more natural than the University Ave. fountains. What would be cool is if the concrete arches were painted a deep red colour. Hell, paint all the concrete on the back of NPS that same red. it would look sexy.

[urban 2.0]

Originally Posted by KGB

I think that is a deadly attitude. For one, you are completely wrong about it being dull and dead...it's an architectural masterpeice, and it's full of people 365 days of the year...it's a true civic square, where people gather to express themselves...be it positively or negatively (protests). It's a place that is welcoming, and attracts large numbers of residents and tourists alike. Show me any city hall with as much activity.

It's a square, which the primary function is to provide an open space for "anything" to happen on...that's what a square is....want markets, patios and bars...go to Kensington

KGB

... well most squares in the world actually do afford dining/shopping/drinking options. What I say is open up pubs, cafes around the square, allow for more options. Sitting on a bench looking at a fountain is fine and dandy, but wouldn't it be nicer if you could sip a drink, eat some food, etc. Yes I know that some places already exist, but I would add more, give it more a market square feel. As for Kensignton, it could use a public square.

[KGB]

I think I'm going to run for mayor. And when I win, I will save NPS from all this blasphemy, then I will have you lot put to sleep.





KGB

[urban 2.0]

Originally Posted by KGB

I think I'm going to run for mayor. And when I win, I will save NPS from all this blasphemy, then I will have you lot put to sleep.

KGB

... great! Can't wait.

Make sure you save the crumbling concrete, the brown dirt that used to be grass, all the people sleeping on the benches, the peace park, the chain link fence that stops people from climbing the freedom arches, the air exhaust vents along Queen St., the digital info board sign, the metal railings.

I really hope that we save it all - change is bad!!!! NPS as it stands should be memorialized for future generations!!!

[Taller, Better]

Somehow I didn't expect you would understand or appreciate the original design, Urban2. I guess it is not like anything that you have seen on your journeys to World Class Cities(tm) and it is icky and old. Bulldoze the whole thing down and get Foster to build a brand new taller version like the Encana building. Change is good!

[KGB]

Make sure you save the crumbling concrete, the brown dirt that used to be grass, all the people sleeping on the benches, the peace park, the chain link fence that stops people from climbing the freedom arches, the air exhaust vents along Queen St., the digital info board sign, the metal railings.

Man...all that wasted sarcasim.

If you had been paying attention, all that and more get trashed under my mayoralship. The integrity of the design is what is important...not just for the sake of it (if the origional is crap, there's little point in saving it), but because it is truly superb. This doesn't mean "nothing" can be added...occaisionally new design can be incorporated into the old with success, when it compliments, rather than compromises the origional.


Not very related, but under my mayoralship, I will also be nerve-gassing Durham Region. There's more....much more.






KGB

[KGB]

Ha Ha!!!


After posting the above, I noticed I had a "message" in my box (a rare occurance). I opened it to find one of our esteemed "moderators" had told me the "putting to sleep" of NPS wreckers was worth an "infraction".

I suppose nerve-gassing part of the 905 gets me barred then I guess. LOL


Seriously...I can simply edit my posts to exclude whatever comments anyone wants, but if you can't distinguish between silly, good-natured humour and "insulting members" (I mean, if you want to get literal, it was actually a death-threat, not an insult)....then perhaps moderating is not your calling.

I chose to air this in public, rather than just returning a private message, because I think the general forum membership needs to know what goes on behind the scenes.





KGB

[elliot]

No harm in having a little fun to juice things up. And Monsieur Revell would forgive, perhaps applaud a little over the top...

[p5archit]

As long as the original concept is held intact, why should it be a problem to add to the overall feel of the square?

p5